ATP Flight School Good Or Bad?

[eagle1983]

Personal experience preferred but any Info will be great. ATP's 90 fast track program interested me and so did the price - 39,995 or so. PM me if you have any specifics or any info

 

[dhc8fo]

Bad when hiring is hot, like now (because your instructor still has wet ink on his ticket and won't be much of an instructor with experience).

OK when hiring is stagnet because they are forced to stay instructing where they get some real world flying experience.

 

[NYCPilot]

Never been there, don't know anyone personally who attended. If you do a search on this board you will find a ton of information as this has been a very popular topic.

Aside from that, it doesn't seem like a bad deal. You'll get some coveted multi-time off the bat and probably an instructor job as well. This will allow you to continually be around planes and a training environment while building up hours quickly. Eventually, you may even get to do some ME instructing as well. ATP is definitely a pilot factory, but it seems a lot of guys can get hired out of there with low TT. Beware of anything on top of the career program like that RJ training, FMS familiarization, etc. Very costly and may not really benefit you as much as them.

 

[minitour]

Hindsight...I would have done it.

-mini

 

[MFRskyknight]

I know this won't help much.... but it's gotta be better than Airman.

MFR

 

[minitour]

I know this won't help much.... but it's gotta be better than Airman.

MFR

LMAO

-mini

 

[W.S.C.O.D.]

I did the 90day program in dallas.

NYCpilot's post is dead on!

Great school, airplanes, I am very satisfied! I had 3 cfi job offers within 2 weeks of completing the program (230tt)

90day program was very stressfull and guys at dispatch were slave drivers. My 90 day program took 120 day cuz wx, instructors getting jobs, etc. This was common when i was there.

You wont get ripped off, you will get your ratings, you most likely will bust A checkride. (because you get the min. training and cfi's are pressured to sign you off)

If you can teach yourself whatever your cfi doesnt youll do fine there.

I reccomend doing the program in the winter so you can build up allot of actual in the instrument/xc phase.

I did my training in dallas and got to fly to some really cool places (vgt, iwa, fll, jax, ict, row) I was luckly, most people got stuck going to MLU or MEI

if you have questions pm me

also do a search there is allot of info about ATP out

 

[W.S.C.O.D.]

oh yeah dont do the RJ or "direct track" program, too expensive and lame. But i wouldnt do a similar program at any other school.

 

[Almerick07]

yea, nix the direct track program, 90 days to get all your ratings.....I'm sure you can tough it out and actually instruct for a year or so (plus save $40k). A year and we'll say a half to meet most regional mins is pretty fast.

 

[350DRIVER]

Bad when hiring is hot, like now (because your instructor still has wet ink on his ticket and won't be much of an instructor with experience).

OK when hiring is stagnet because they are forced to stay instructing where they get some real world flying experience.

I second the above, pretty well stated. This is one flight school that I looked at quite a few years ago and glad I stayed away from it. I can't even say that I have recommended one student to attend this school. Your money would be much better spent at a different school. This is a lot of money for what may be or may not be promised, sometimes shortcuts are just that, shortcuts. You could do all plus some at a smaller no name flight school that doesn't take the glossy color ads in monthly publications. I would think long and hard about this one, it didn't take me very long when I looked at the other options that were out there and available.

 

[flydrummer]

I second the above, pretty well stated. This is one flight school that I looked at quite a few years ago and glad I stayed away from it. I can't even say that I have recommended one student to attend this school. Your money would be much better spent at a different school. This is a lot of money for what may be or may not be promised, sometimes shortcuts are just that, shortcuts. You could do all plus some at a smaller no name flight school that doesn't take the glossy color ads in monthly publications. I would think long and hard about this one, it didn't take me very long when I looked at the other options that were out there and available.

What are some of the other options that were available to you?

 

[350DRIVER]

What are some of the other options that were available to you?

The route I took was the Continental Express program in conjunction with San Jacinto college, was actually offered a 1900 ground instructor position in the days of John Dresser before I even completed the program. I did the CFI/CFII at Airman in Norman. I am merely saying that hell would have froze over before I gave ATP's $40,000+ for some "fast track program" which really is not overly relevant due to the lower hiring times that the regionals are requiring present day. You can do the training at a smaller no name mom and pops flight school and end up with the same desired result/outcome at a fraction of the cost.

 

[GAcfi]

Hey

Answered.

 

[350DRIVER]

350, sent you a Pm and e-mail if your still up, want to chat?

Didn't realize the box was full, will resolve that problem here now. I shot you a response email, give me a ring tom. afternoon if you are bored and want to catch up.

 

[Matt777]

The route I took was the Continental Express program in conjunction with San Jacinto college, was actually offered a 1900 ground instructor position in the days of John Dresser before I even completed the program. I did the CFI/CFII at Airman in Norman. I am merely saying that hell would have froze over before I gave ATP's $40,000+ for some "fast track program" which really is not overly relevant due to the lower hiring times that the regionals are requiring present day. You can do the training at a smaller no name mom and pops flight school and end up with the same desired result/outcome at a fraction of the cost.

I was quoted $40,000 at my local flightschool for PPL, IR, Commercial, CFI, CFII, Multi, and only 50 hours of multi time. I've just finished the PPL portion at a cost of $8,200 (for 40 hours 172 & 60 hours instruction) and was actually going to call ATP tomorrow to see if I could do the phone interview. Where are these FBOs that can do everything ATP does at a fraction of the cost?

There is a school in Fresno called Mazzei that costs $37,000 for 200 hours (just like ATP), but you only get 50 hours multi, instead of ATP's 140(+50FTD).

After reading the thread here over in the Regional Airlines section where Captains are complaining, in detail, about the inexperience of low time FOs it makes it seem like the 85 hours of cross country flying you can do at ATP would give you lots of experience with weather and flying in the IFR system.

Can you direct me to an FBO that can do all the ratings for a fraction of ATP?
I'm not being confrontational or sarcastic- I want to know so I can go there!!! Seriously.

Now you've got me worried now about all of ATPs CFIs being inexperienced!

When hiring is really good don't CFIs at most schools (in addition to ATP) move on to an airline job leaving the school with low time CFIs too? Or is that less common in an FBO environment, compared to ATP?

thanks for your help,

 

[350DRIVER]

$8,200 for the private course?. Ouch, did this include any fancy extras like a Boise X headset?. Seems like you could have done the same course for $5995 and even that seems a tad high. http://www.flyoft.com/private_pilot.php


The training and courses can be done for less than ATP's and for less than what you have paid thus far, the above is merely one example of many. I would suggest doing some research and comparing the costs before you give a flight school like ATP that much money. Don't let me stop you, if you are that determined to go there then by all means take that route.

The smaller flight schools can offer reduced rates and for the most part are cheaper, substantially cheaper in my opinion due to lower overhead costs, small size of the operation, the setup, etc, etc. I don't personally have the time to compare one school to another school but if cost is not a concern then by all means disregard my previous post and response.

85 hours of cross country flying you can do at ATP would give you lots of experience with weather and flying in the IFR system.

85 hours of flying city to city is not the answer to obtaining the "experience" which really only comes over a period of time. That statement would be like comparing single pilot IFR night freight in the northeast to flying this 85 hours will build the same amount of experience. Two different worlds my friend and I am sure as you advance you will soon see that.

Take things you read on this board with a grain of salt, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

good luck in whatever you decide to do

You may want to look into the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program (MAPD) if your goal is to get to the airlines, even this 19 month program is cheaper (or was) and most all successful applicants upon completion of this program are hired on by Mesa to fly the CRJ700/900, EMB145, or Dash8. The program works, do a board search, I have attributed much to the subject over the past few years.

 

[Almerick07]

I did my ppl training at Monarch Air at KADS in Addison, TX (dfw area). I spent $4200 on my private, finished it in 35 hours exactly and in about 2 1/2 weeks. They have package deals for all your ratings and they typically hire former students paying $14 an hour....may have changed since last year. Cost of living is pretty cheap in DFW compared to other places if you needed to shack up there for a couple months.

www.monarchair.com

 

[350DRIVER]

Phase I

[size=+0]Phase I of the Professional Pilot Program navigates pilots-in-training from zero flight experience to a Commercial Pilot Rating. Utilizing a regimented training syllabus, students are able to progress quickly and economically through their flight training. Phase I is complete when the student has achieved the following:[/size]

[size=+0]190 hours total flight time[/size]
[size=+0]Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land[/size]
[size=+0]Commercial Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / Instrument[/size]
[size=+0]Commercial Pilot, Airplane Multi-Engine Land / Instrument [/size]


Phase I Package Cost - $ 24,952.55


The CFI/II can be added to the above> Phase II Package Cost - $ 4,366.40


This is just one example of many, do the research

 

[flydrummer]

I did my ppl training at Monarch Air at KADS in Addison, TX (dfw area). I spent $4200 on my private, finished it in 35 hours exactly and in about 2 1/2 weeks. They have package deals for all your ratings and they typically hire former students paying $14 an hour....may have changed since last year. Cost of living is pretty cheap in DFW compared to other places if you needed to shack up there for a couple months.

www.monarchair.com

Man, I'm ready to move to Dallas. That's definiately some inexpensive flight trainig at Monarch. I think Matt777 lives in California as do I and i gotta say out here the cheapest I've found for PPL training is $7000 minimum. Don't even get me started on the cost of living. I have a friend that lives in McKinney and I can't belive the housing prices out there compared to L.A.

 

[Hogan]

I thought about gong the ATP route but found the quality of education was uneven. Some guys had a great experience. Some had a very bad one. Ran in to a few of their instructors in a bar and they had less time than I did and were very very very unhappy about being instructors. You'll learn the check ride then you are on your own, was the attitude. I think that must vary from place to place, at least I hope so.

 

[dhc8fo]

The other thing you need to consider with ATP is that you will really only "get" half the time promised. The other half is spent as your flight partner's safety pilot. So make sure the numbers are actual hands on PIC when you are comparing.

 

[kc135ang]

I did ATPs 90 day program back in 1999 and I have to say I was pleased. Back then the program went for either 16 or 18K and for the most part the instructors were decent, but theirs always the exception. I also recieved nearly 30 t0 40 hours of extra multi time because ATP had really bad record keeping back then but that changed whrn I started to instruct for them. By the way you will learn a ton of information from instructing. i recommend it, even though some would disagree.

my two cents!

 

[Almerick07]

As far as monarch air is concerned they make most their money on mx, every airplane there gets a 50hr opposed to the standard 100hr. Top notch facility, and you'll practically be instrument proficient right off the bat having to get clearances anytime you want to fly south. They have older airplanes that rent pretty cheap and newer ones for a little more. All my training during my ppl was in a 172 mostly P model. The checkride guy down there "smitty" is a fair and super nice old man. I regret not getting all my ratings there. PM me if you want some more info, I used to live in that area as well.

 

[Matt777]

The other thing you need to consider with ATP is that you will really only "get" half the time promised. The other half is spent as your flight partner's safety pilot. So make sure the numbers are actual hands on PIC when you are comparing.

Yep- a little bit of false advertising there.

200hours
- 10 172
- 50 FTD
- 37.5 (half of 75 hrs Cross country as PIC)
--------
102.5 real multi time
(and 3 of that 102.5 is "_UP TO_ 3 hours Cessna Citation"

Is FTD Multi time worth anything at all?
Where it actually matters- on the resume you send to the airlines is the FTD time counted as part of your multiengine time? (I'm guessing the answer is no).

The school that my friend who is a UPS pilot is recommending is Mazzei where you get 200 hours (which is actually 50 hours more REAL (non FTD time) than ATP, BUT you only get 50 multi. But it is also $2,000 less than ATP and includes a paid for apartment- for 7 months compared to ATP's 3 month program.

But Mazzei is not financed by Key Bank (who I already have a loan with), they are financed by Sally Mae and it seems that they have a 5% or more loan fee (which is big money on $50,000) PLUS repayment fees!

I need to get a list of all the schools financed by Key.

But as far as I know only ATP and Mazzei guarantee a fixed price for training.

Basically it seems like I'm hearing negative things about ATP from people who haven't ever gone there and from the people who actually went there I am hearing that they really liked the program a lot.

I don't like what comes across as false advertising because you don't get 75 PIC, you get half, but based on the numbers and the opinions of those who've actually attended ATP, ATP is still in first place.


thanks to everyone who has responded so far!

 

[Matt777]

Phase I

[size=+0]Phase I of the Professional Pilot Program navigates pilots-in-training from zero flight experience to a Commercial Pilot Rating. Utilizing a regimented training syllabus, students are able to progress quickly and economically through their flight training. Phase I is complete when the student has achieved the following:[/size]

[size=+0]190 hours total flight time[/size]
[size=+0]Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land[/size]
[size=+0]Commercial Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / Instrument[/size]
[size=+0]Commercial Pilot, Airplane Multi-Engine Land / Instrument [/size]


Phase I Package Cost - $ 24,952.55


The CFI/II can be added to the above> Phase II Package Cost - $ 4,366.40


This is just one example of many, do the research

The problem is that I am restricted to schools who provide housing.
Where is the best place to start on researching flight schools? I've been reading the jetcareers forum since my UPS friend directed me there... he recommends going to an FBO, but in a big city like Seattle every FBO is extremely expensive- due to their overhead I would guess.

I know about Ari-ben and I've reasearched enough to learn that PanAm and Flightsafety are a rip-off- and that DCA is worse.

I could move to Dallas (or wherever there are cheap FBOs) and _hope_ to find a job there, but going off to ATP and having a paid-for apartment and just knocking the ratings out and getting employed so I can start accruing experience sounds a lot more promising to me. Keep in mind that ATP's price does include 3 months of apartment rental.

If I could find a local FBO that offered a $29,500 program like the one you pasted above I would definitely go for that. If I could buy an RV for under $9,000 then I could go to that cheap FBO above and save about $1,000.
And minus the gas money to get there- then it is the same price as ATP.

When I took out my loan 3 months ago I was going to do it all at my local FBO for $40,000, but you only get 50 hours multi and I am not happy with the unstructured environment.

 

[Matt777]

$8,200 for the private course?. Ouch, did this include any fancy extras like a Boise X headset?. Seems like you could have done the same course for $5995 and even that seems a tad high. http://www.flyoft.com/private_pilot.php

That flight school is almost the same price as mine because if I had bought a block of 152 time instead of 172 I would have saved $1,320, but their 152s are beat up heaps and the 172s are new. Since I thought I was going to finish my PPL and get started on the IR well before I used up the 40 hour block it made since to go for the 172 time since you can't do the IR in the 152.

I used 33 hours to get my private- I suppose I wasted 3 hours soling trying to get my maneuvers "too perfect" for the checkride.

The smaller flight schools can offer reduced rates and for the most part are cheaper, substantially cheaper in my opinion due to lower overhead costs, small size of the operation, the setup, etc, etc. I don't personally have the time to compare one school to another school but if cost is not a concern then by all means disregard my previous post and response.

For about a month back in in '99 I went to one of these small schools to save money , but the 1 hour drive each way just didn't work for the long term "train at least every other day" situation. Not to mention the gas cost which (especially now) would negate any savings.

85 hours of flying city to city is not the answer to obtaining the "experience" which really only comes over a period of time.

Oh I know- that's not what I meant. I plan to fly freight before applying at Horizon. I just thought that getting 85 hours of cross country time would be a good experience, though not even remotely equal to the experience gained in real freight flying.

Take things you read on this board with a grain of salt, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

good luck in whatever you decide to do

You may want to look into the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program (MAPD) if your goal is to get to the airlines, even this 19 month program is cheaper (or was) and most all successful applicants upon completion of this program are hired on by Mesa to fly the CRJ700/900, EMB145, or Dash8. The program works, do a board search, I have attributed much to the subject over the past few years.

I found a couple things about MAPD here, but it looks like it costs more than ATP. After glancing at just the few posts I found last night, it looks like a DCA kind of thing where they promise you a job and charge you a lot- and that there is a 1 year wait to get hired by Mesa.
I'll do another search on it now.

I just want to get my ratings for cheap- but I need a place to sleep to be part of the deal.


thanks for your help



(Hey Flydrummer- I'm up in Seattle. It's cheaper down past Tacoma across the narrows bridge at TIW (Tacoma Narrows), but it is a 1 hour plus drive.
Seattle recently ranked as one of the worst cities to live in in some magazine due to the high cost of living).

 

[Almerick07]

I could move to Dallas (or wherever there are cheap FBOs) and _hope_ to find a job there,

You could easily find an apartment for $400 a month all bills paid in the DFW area, also DFW is a HUGE metro with many airports. In regards to Monarch Air if you get your CFI there you will have a job. Plus $14 an hour is a decent rate for a big FBO. Dallas is a great place to live with regards to aviation, very very central location in the US and where I used to live there were TONS of pilots. Monarch Air also has very wealthy clients, I know of one who bought a cirrus for his training and another who bought a baron....not rare for some serious networking and oppertunities.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

FWIW, I happen to be a fan of the ATP program...provided that the student is a self-starter and a self-motivated person who is willing to go the extra mile on their own. If they need stuff force-fed to them (everyone learns differently), then ATP is not the place for you. The multi-time as well as the real world XC time is very valuable, and I believe half of their airplanes are new Seminoles with Garmins and autopilots, etc. This recommendation comes from someone who did their ratings at mom and pop schools. Another avenue to consider is to buy a light twin (preferably with 1 to 3 other people) and do all of your ratings in that airplane (with a competent and motivated local MEI).

-Neal

 

[bender]

I'm a current instructor for ATP and enjoying my time here. To answer a few questions brought up in this thread; Yes, your experience with ATP will vary based on your instructor but I think this is a problem that isn't specific to us. Yes, you must be self-motivated and study on your own in order to succeed in the program. No, our aircraft are not equipped with autopilots. If you have a question I can answer it in this thread or you can PM me.

I've also told two students that I couldn't sign them off because they weren't going to be ready for their checkrides in the time allowed.

 

[flydrummer]

Just went to the ATP site.....if you're gonna enroll do it now casue I saw that after November 1st they're gonna add a $4000 fuel surcharge to their program.