ATN ALPA Letter from SWA

[boeing717]

Hey, "boeing717"-

You're not a Pilot, and you obviously don't understand our issues, so why do you feel this overwhelming need to come here and comment on things you don't even understand? There are other forums for non-Pilots . . . . . use them.

The door is closing . . . . please step off of the aircraft. Buh-bye. :laugh:

OK. I am sorry. I thought this was open to anybody. I should have know better. Who can I talk to and get permission to be here? Can you give me permission?

I do have a private pilot license, would that help me?

Thanks

 

[Roomwithaview]

Ty

You're not a Pilot, and you obviously don't understand our issues, so why do you feel this overwhelming need to come here and comment on things you don't even understand? There are other forums for non-Pilots . . . . . use them.

I guess for the same reason posters like Gen Lee and OYS do it.

:nuts:

 

[Lear70]

I hope what you write makes you feel better, because you are probably the only one that feels better.

Nah, there's a BUNCH of people that took a collective sigh of relief when that letter was signed and the Process Agreement was T.A.'d. If you were an AirTran pilot, you'd understand that, having been privy to our internal message board, the hostility that was brewing after SL8 was signed and it looked like it was deliberately crafted to not only put us at a disadvantage but also violated our CBA in several sections. It was getting ugly on our side of the fence... fear has a tendency to make people hostile.

The MV letter and the Process Agreement resolved a LOT of that tension... but you'd have to be a pilot to understand it.

You tell everybody to keep quiet and you are the first one to open your mouth. Try practicing what you preach.

I'm not telling people to shut up completely, I'm asking people to stop ANTAGONIZING each other by posting things that deliberately provoke the other side. We're all going to continue discussing things, which is a HEALTHY thing (one of the threads had been swimming peacefully for several days of responses which was nice). No harm in that. :beer:

If one of my PEERS would like to tell me that I'm posting things that are hostile and openly provocative, they all have my email address or can PM me here and tell me to Shut It.

 

[roughneck]

Nah, there's a BUNCH of people that took a collective sigh of relief when that letter was signed and the Process Agreement was T.A.'d.

I have yet to see a signed Process Agreement. I wouldn't sigh yet.

 

[Lear70]

I was more worried about the MV letter. The Process Agreement helps, but the letter agreeing that Southwest was a successor as defined in our Section 1 takes care of most of my concerns moving forward.

I also see no reason for SWA management nor AAI management NOT to sign the Process Agreement (and SWAPA and AAI ALPA already did). It doesn't contain anything that would bind either management team to do what they haven't already committed to do anyway...

Then again, I'm a "cup half-full" kind of guy.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Lear 70

I will tell you.

I'm not telling people to shut up completely, I'm asking people to stop ANTAGONIZING each other by posting things that deliberately provoke the other side. We're all going to continue discussing things, which is a HEALTHY thing (one of the threads had been swimming peacefully for several days of responses which was nice). No harm in that. :beer:

If one of my PEERS would like to tell me that I'm posting things that are hostile and openly provocative, they all have my email address or can PM me here and tell me to Shut It.

I don't think you practice what you preach.

You posted earlier, maybe you edited it or retracted it, that a STAPLE WAS NOT FAIR. Well, that's a pretty bold stance. I could just as easily say that it is and we can start slinging the mud back and forth. You want to go there?

If you want civility then the AAI guys that are posting here need to attempt some semblance of reality. To discuss in realistic terms the leverage and bargaining power your company and your union bring to the table. Keep it in the real world. Otherwise, it's pointless.

You guys found a winning lottery ticket that you didn't even have to pay for on 9/27/10. You had 100's of pilots that were applying, and leaving AAI to come to SWA. That means they were leaving whatever position they held on the AAI seniority list to come to the bottom of ours. It wasn't working the other way around. Ask yourself why that is and honestly answer it in a post without all the post 9/27/10 bull$hit that has been conjured up out of nowhere.

You, and I can say and write anything we want. Your M & A Committee and our M & A committee will be hammering out the details of a "fair" (which is a completely subjective term) MSLI and hopefully your M & A and MEC are smart enough to take a good deal when they see one. If they don't they could end up like Frontier. Or, they can roll the dice with an arbitrator. I can tell you this. Our M&A will not bring a polished turd back to the membership. Additionally, we have a cadre' of lawyers, 39 years of shared success of the most profitable and productive airline in the history of mankind, and time on our side. So, the misconception that is played out over and over again, on this forum, by the primarily DAL antagonists (ask yourself why that is) is complete and utter bunk. We are prepared quite nicley for arbitration. Financially and emotionally. The SWAPA membership expects and welcomes it.

If you want civil discussion. Then live in the real world when you write. AAI guys will get a "fair" deal (remember the definition above) no matter how this thing works out UNLESS the deal craters. (and trust me-contrary to gross misconception-It can) I don't think there's a pilot on your seniority list that wants that to happen. Think about that when you're conjuring up supporting post 9/27/10 data for Relative Seniority, DOH or whatever Metric du jour compliments your ego.

:nuts:

 

[WalterSobchak]

There are other forums for non-Pilots . . . . . use them.

Ty, can you please point out to me where it says "For Pilots Only"?

Majors
Information for the Majors.

I get what you're saying...that this person has no dog in the ALPA/SWAPA fight...however, your assertion that non-pilot employees have no business discussing the matters at hand is a little bit...pompous. While I recognize that you and many of your colleagues (by no means all of them) believe the world revolves around you, there are other people's careers at stake in this deal...much of them depending solely on the decisions of the most egomaniacal workgroup on the property. I figure that earns them the right to talk about it on an anonymous and insanely juvenile message board.

 

[boeing717]

Ty, can you please point out to me where it says "For Pilots Only"?

I get what you're saying...that this person has no dog in the ALPA/SWAPA fight...however, your assertion that non-pilot employees have no business discussing the matters at hand is a little bit...pompous. While I recognize that you and many of your colleagues (by no means all of them) believe the world revolves around you, there are other people's careers at stake in this deal...much of them depending solely on the decisions of the most egomaniacal workgroup on the property. I figure that earns them the right to talk about it on an anonymous and insanely juvenile message board.

Maybe when he reads my answer and sees I have a private pilot license he will give me permission.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, can you please point out to me where it says "For Pilots Only"?

I get what you're saying...that this person has no dog in the ALPA/SWAPA fight...however, your assertion that non-pilot employees have no business discussing the matters at hand is a little bit...pompous.

We've had AirTran Dispatchers and Ops people on here for years. No one, myself included, gave them any flack about it, in fact I have exchanged quite a few friendly pm's with several of them. Glad to have them here.

This person, on the other hand (boeing717) appeared here a month ago, and has done nothing but cry and whine as AirTran pilots, acting through our collective bargaining agent (ALPA), do what we need to do to navigate this merger process and protect the interest of our Pilots. That is why I have singled him out.

You are represented by your Union, and we are represented by ours. I don't tell your Union or your membership how to navigate this merger, and I don't believe it is appropriate for you or boeing717 to try to tell us how to handle our issues, either.

If your Union and the SWA DX Union have SLI issues, you wouldn't appreciate me coming onto a DX message board and telling AirTran DX'ers to rollover on their SLI negotiations and took the side of SWA DX'ers, would you?

While I recognize that you and many of your colleagues (by no means all of them) believe the world revolves around you, there are other people's careers at stake in this deal...much of them depending solely on the decisions of the most egomaniacal workgroup on the property. I figure that earns them the right to talk about it on an anonymous and insanely juvenile message board.

This message board, by the way, was started by a Pilot named Mark about 15 years ago, and was for the exchange of information by Pilots. I, and others, contributed $$$ to help him create and maintain this website. Some of us have been here for pretty much the whole 15 years.

Just something you might want to think about before you come on to a Pilot website, and start telling Pilots how their union should operate and calling them egomaniacs.

 

[boeing717]

We've had AirTran Dispatchers and Ops people on here for years. No one, myself included, gave them any flack about it, in fact I have exchanged quite a few friendly pm's with several of them. Glad to have them here.

This person, on the other hand (boeing717) appeared here a month ago, and has done nothing but cry and whine as AirTran pilots, acting through our collective bargaining agent (ALPA), do what we need to do to navigate this merger process and protect the interest of our Pilots. That is why I have singled him out.

You are represented by your Union, and we are represented by ours. I don't tell your Union or your membership how to navigate this merger, and I don't believe it is appropriate for you or boeing717 to try to tell us how to handle our issues, either.

If your Union and the SWA DX Union have SLI issues, you wouldn't appreciate me coming onto a DX message board and telling AirTran DX'ers to rollover on their SLI negotiations and took the side of SWA DX'ers, would you?

This message board, by the way, was started by a Pilot named Mark about 15 years ago, and was for the exchange of information by Pilots. I, and others, contributed $$$ to help him create and maintain this website. Some of us have been here for pretty much the whole 15 years.

Just something you might want to think about before you come on to a Pilot website, and start telling Pilots how their union should operate and calling them egomaniacs.

So, does that mean I have your permission?

 

[Ty Webb]

You don't need my permission, but if you come onto a Pilot message board, and tell AirTran pilots what we should or shouldn't do, expect to be served.

If you would have just said, "I'm an AirTran employee, too, and I am worried that the Pilot issues might affect my chance to become a SWA employee." you would have gotten a completely different response.

 

[boeing717]

You don't need my permission, but if you come onto a Pilot message board, and tell AirTran pilots what we should or shouldn't do, expect to be served.

If you would have just said, "I'm an AirTran employee, too, and I am worried that the Pilot issues might affect my chance to become a SWA employee" you would have gotten a completely different response.

I know I do not need your permission. I will say what ever I want and really do not care whether you like it or not. You can respond anyway you want. It doesn't bother me. However, I will tell you when I think you or any other pilot says stupid things without facts. I personally think you and a few others can only see what is in front of your face.. I just hope you and your ALPA people don't screw this up. Remember, your group is the most militant of the groups at Airtran. Don't take this personal you cannot help yourself. It was the way you were brought up. When it is all said and done SWA will only have 1700 militants compared to the 6000 original guys.

 

[Ty Webb]

I know I do not need your permission. I will say what ever I want and really do not care whether you like it or not. You can respond anyway you want. It doesn't bother me. However, I will tell you when I think you or any other pilot says stupid things without facts. I personally think you and a few others can only see what is in front of your face.. I just hope you and your ALPA people don't screw this up. Remember, your group is the most militant of the groups at Airtran. Don't take this personal you cannot help yourself. It was the way you were brought up. When it is all said and done SWA will only have 1700 militants compared to the 6000 original guys.

Obviously, you are very stressed out about this merger, and what impact it will have on your job and your life. So are we. So are the SWA pilots. Welcome to "the Club".

My guess is that whether or not you will have a career at SWA has little to do with ALPA and a lot more to do with decisions and policies that will be made and implemented by SWA management. We have a lot of really great employees, and I hope that they identify and keep every one of 'em.

Maybe your time would be better spent collecting LOR's from co-workers and standing out by continuing to do your job as well as it can be done- in other words, do positive things that you have control over, instead of fighting with Pilots on a message board. . . . .

Regards,
Ty

 

[400ADude]

If you were an AirTran pilot, you'd understand that, having been privy to our internal message board, the hostility that was brewing after SL8 was signed and it looked like it was deliberately crafted to not only put us at a disadvantage but also violated our CBA in several sections. It was getting ugly on our side of the fence... fear has a tendency to make people hostile.

Nothing has even happened yet and your getting your panties in a wad.
Go ahead and get ugly! I hope you do.

The MV letter and the Process Agreement resolved a LOT of that tension... but you'd have to be a pilot to understand it.

Nothing has changed with regards to SL 8. It's just a process agreement. SL8 will rule the roost. Southwest will do what it wants with you and there is nothing you can do about it except find yourself in the unemployement line.

Face it, your regional (Major) airline got purchased and you won't be calling much of the shots. Its life get over it. The only shots you can call however, will be ruining the deal for yourselves and finding yourself on the street. Think about it and also think about why Southwest hasn't made a deal to waive codeshare with SWAPA. Ask yourself why no deal to waive codeshare??

 

[Wesb737fo]

Nothing has even happened yet and your getting your panties in a wad.
Go ahead and get ugly! I hope you do.

Nothing has changed with regards to SL 8. It's just a process agreement. SL8 will rule the roost. Southwest will do what it wants with you and there is nothing you can do about it except find yourself in the unemployement line.

Face it, your regional (Major) airline got purchased and you won't be calling much of the shots. Its life get over it. The only shots you can call however, will be ruining the deal for yourselves and finding yourself on the street. Think about it and also think about why Southwest hasn't made a deal to waive codeshare with SWAPA. Ask yourself why no deal to waive codeshare??

yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn....zzzzzzzzz