ATLAS and UPS

[waazzuuuup!!]

$29.00 dollars a share today!!!!!


Kewl

 

[Clyde]

But UPS would most likely be interested only in the -400s and Polar's route authority. Ask ANY UPS pilot and they will surely tell you that UPS is not willingly hiring, management still thinks they are adequately staffed. If UPS was forced to take the Atlas/Polar group, an influx of over 900 pilots would surely lead to furloughs. Plus the IPA would be in no mood to integrate lists, the best you could hope for would be a staple, so you can guess where the furloughs would come from.

Rhoid,
I'll give this one a shot.

If, and that is a big if, we were to buy anything from Atlas or Polar, I don't think the -400's would be part of the deal. I've heard around here several times that UPS would more than likely just go after the route authority and purchase the airframes elsewhere. Converted 400's from PAX to cargo would be better I was told because they are cheaper and we don't currently have a need for a 747 with a swinging nose.

As far as any type of pilot integration. Remember, UPS isn't an airline in the same way as Atlas, Polar, Northwest, etc. If UPS were to purchase Atlas/Polar, it's not like when AA purchased TWA. What you have is a giant shipping conglomerate purchasing the assets of a smaller airline. The employees do not necessarily have to be part of the deal. In the AA/TWA purchase, you had two companies who, for all practical purposes, were identical in their structure and business plans. i.e., they were both strictly companies set up to fly passengers from point A to point B. The UPS airline is just one component of something much, much greater.

I've been here 5 years, and I don't know UPS to be a company to hire just anyone because of a purchase. They like to have control, and they are very specific about who they hire to fly their airplanes. Would they offer interviews? Who knows, but as far as I know, I don't see ANYBODY flying a UPS airplane without at least first being interviewed. And then, after being interviewed AND selected, they would be placed in seniority based on their date of hire at UPS.

Personally, I don't have any reason to believe there will be a complete purchase of Atlas/Polar. Realistically, we'll probably purchase airframes sitting out in the desert and add them into the fleet. If anything, we may purchase the route authority from Atlas/Polar if we need it.

And as far as staffing, the company sees us as being staffed correctly and the union still sees us as needing more people. The company is the one who initiates the hiring.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Just a quick note I believe that the Narita slots that Polar holds are specific to Polar only and cannot be "sold"

 

[Whale Rider]

Just a quick note I believe that the Narita slots that Polar holds are specific to Polar only and cannot be "sold"

You believe Correctly................

 

[boomlrd]

Guys don't worry about Rhoid, he is a loser who goes around on this board with nothing better to do than flamebait. e is the same clown who claimed that (CAT), Custom Air Transport, would be out of Dayton due to the UPS purchase of Menlo. Well I am still flying in Dayton and UPS just re upped our contract for another 5 years, because we haul hazardous cargo and packages over 70lbs which UPS cannot. This guy is probably just some CFI dreamer who thinks he knows about the industry more than those who work there. The crap he says makes no sense and you are all right that he would never get a job at UPS, not even a bottom feeder like CAT will have him. I use these boards to try and get somewhat of a clue as to whats going on out there and small time CFI's like him make it out like they know what is going on and just garbage up message boards. I hope to find out who he is, so I can do my part in making sure he is never hired here, I think I have seen his resume' at CAT before, not a chance! Get a life Rhoid!!

 

[FreightNazi]

UPS can operate the former Menlo operation out of DAY with contractors for up to one year from the date of purchase.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Well I am still flying in Dayton and UPS just re upped our contract for another 5 years, because we haul hazardous cargo and packages over 70lbs which UPS cannot.

boomlrd,

Do you know how many contract aircraft currently fly the freight out of Dayton on a daily basis? Thanks ...

BBB

 

[boomlrd]

Not sure of the total number, though CAT does have 18 B-727s in Dayton and have been asked to increase to 25 sometime thoughout the year. As to exact numbers of other contractors, I have no idea. Express.net and Kallita, and a couple others have a smaller number of aircraft there. As far as the statement that contractors can only fly for one year out of Dayton now that its a UPS op, its incorrect. CAT has just renegotiated a 5 year deal for UPS, if UPS could haul hazardous and packages over 70lbs., that might have been true. However, UPS cannot, and will not in the near future, at least five more years. Besides, UPS management loves the cheap labor it gets through the contractors, someones got to carry the cargo for UPS.

 

[FreightNazi]

Not sure of the total number, though CAT does have 18 B-727s in Dayton and have been asked to increase to 25 sometime thoughout the year. As to exact numbers of other contractors, I have no idea. Express.net and Kallita, and a couple others have a smaller number of aircraft there. As far as the statement that contractors can only fly for one year out of Dayton now that its a UPS op, its incorrect. CAT has just renegotiated a 5 year deal for UPS, if UPS could haul hazardous and packages over 70lbs., that might have been true. However, UPS cannot, and will not in the near future, at least five more years. Besides, UPS management loves the cheap labor it gets through the contractors, someones got to carry the cargo for UPS.

Actually my statement regarding UPS having up to one year from date of purchase to continue using contractors is correct. The UPS/IPA contract has such language in it and it's up to UPS to either follow the language or risk a confrontation over it with the IPA. UPS does carry certain hazmats and certainly carries packages over 70lbs.

Certain UPS divisions have been known in the past, and there is no reason assume they still don't behave this way, to act independently of one another, not knowing how the actions they take will affect other UPS operations. They have signed contracts and made deals without knowing the implications on other UPS divisions. Often they were forced to go back and cancel or modify deals that they made once they found out the impact on the other divisions. So seeing that SCS signed a five year renewal with CAT in no way means that CAT will indeed be flying as a contractor for the next 5 years. I could easily see UPS SCS signing deals with contractors without knowing of the scope requirements of the airline.

Interestingly enough, the next round of talks between UPS and IPA include talks on scope and you can be certain that Menlo will be at the top of the list.
Less than two weeks ago I had a conversation with the system chief pilot and he told me that the Menlo aquisition would lead to a significant amount of new flying for IPA crews out of DAY and would require UPS to continue to hire throughout 2005.