Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

ATC's

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

ipilot

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
Posts
74
i was just wondering how u guys feel when some of these ATC's come up with stupid instructions and if u don't follow them then they r on ur case. like today i was with a student cleared for take off and while i was entering the runway and student was doing the pre take off checks this ATC tell this other aircraft landing on an intececting runway to turn on the runway i was on and he started yapping at me that i should take off quickly. i wanted my student to be sure that he has done every checks and engines r within the green arc before we go up in the air. its was nothing like a delay on our side otherwise i'd have asked for it. its just that he wanted that other aircraft to be clear of that other runway quick enough so he wanted me to clear that runway as well. rather than he could have asked the other aircraft to clear on the taxi way right next to the runway i was on. i'm not being hard on them as i know that they work under a lot of pressure and i'd certainly not take their job but sometimes they don't think what they r saying or doing. if you do something slightly wrong they r ready to give u a number to call and that goes on ur record but i wish if we could give them a number to call them after they screw up :D



_________________________
Check that its three greens......
 
The point is that it is extremely hard to read and understand when every other word is spelled wrong and the whole message is one big paragraph.

Act professional if you want to be taken seriously.
 
Sorry, I have to agree with the others. I don't like it when people use shorthand on this or other message boards... a pet peeve. In most cases I tend to skip it and continue on to the next one.

Anyway, as PIC it is your responisbility to maintain the safety of the flight and you should not accept any instructions from ATC that would affect the safety of the flight. If they want you to takeoff immediately, they should ask you if you can accept a "no delay" takeoff clearance. However, when you advise tower that you are ready for takeoff you should be ready to do so. If you haven't completed your run-up or pre-takeoff procedures yet, don't tell the tower that you are ready for take-off. If you are going to be practicing a short field takeoff and will need a few seconds to set the brakes and bring the power up, advise tower that you will need a short delay on the runway. Also be aware of local practices. Not all airports want you to be doing a run-up at the hold short line because this can back up the flow of traffic. If you are not sure where to do a run-up, ask around where this is normally done at an FBO or even the ground controller.
 
well! if u don't understand then don't bother replying. this is not an english class.
 
ipilot -

It may not be an English class but like dmspilot00 said, if you want to be taken seriously act like a professional. Professionals use proper English. I know what you mean when you use u, r and ur, but it is annoying and harder to follow than if you would just type the extra few letters in the words.

While we are on the subject of pet peeves, another one of mine is when people don't use any capital letters in online posts. You can access the capital letters by pressing down on the Shift key on the keyboard while typing the letter that should be capitalized. Most keyboards have 2 such keys to choose from.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
j41driver said:
ipilot -

It may not be an English class but like dmspilot00 said, if you want to be taken seriously act like a professional. Professionals use proper English. I know what you mean when you use u, r and ur, but it is annoying and harder to follow than if you would just type the extra few letters in the words.

While we are on the subject of pet peeves, another one of mine is when people don't use any capital letters in online posts. You can access the capital letters by pressing down on the Shift key on the keyboard while typing the letter that should be capitalized. Most keyboards have 2 such keys to choose from.

Hope this helps.

This is obviously (from the responses above) not just a problem unique to one. I personally find it very annoying. Even when just IM-ing or posting I think that these incomplete words are a sign of a lazy poster. It does not require much effort to type complete words (in fact for some, I think it would require more work to leave these necessary letters out).

ipilot-
What would your student think if you gave him notes to take home and study and they included words such as "u", "ur", and "r"? He would probably think you were a fruit....It is just a manner of appearance and professionalism (sp?).

JMHO,
ali

<insert siggy here>
 
ipilot:
Back to the original theme, here. You were right to take your time, and make sure your student had his stuff done and checked. I get rushed all the time at large airports, and if we're not ready, we ask for a few seconds. No biggie, except sometimes they "forget" about you after that! IF you're not ready to go at the runway at ORD and DFW, you might be waiting a while!
 
D A M N Whippersnapper..

Stick to the dirt/grass strips to avoid your problems with ATC.
 
ATC and English

I agree with the others. You are the PIC. You are responsible for the safety of the flight per 14 CFR 91.3(a), which states "The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft." Usually, if you approach ATC politely, you'll get courteous cooperation.

I've always told young people who want to be pilots that they should take as much math, science, physics, English and speech as possible. Why English and speech? Because they will be writing to and meeting with all kinds of people during their flying careers, a good many of which will be older than them, i.e. adults. They will be writing business letters, cover letters, resumes and reports. They will be speaking with H.R. people, "the boss," mechanics, customers, pax and co-workers. If you don't speak well and write at least correctly, the people whom you want to impress will think that you're a moron and will not take you seriously. Moreover, if you don't write correctly you come across as being slovenly. You don't have to be Hemmingway to write correct English.

Think about it.
 
Last edited:
While we're on the subject of pet peeves ....

For those of you who slept through college English, 'anyways' is NOT A GODD@MN WORD! And the next person using 'your' for 'you're' gets a visit from the Baseball Bat Fairy.

:D

Minh

(Off to night school ...)
 
Anyways, I think your rite.

Wot is rong with speling funy, anyways? Gist bekos sum of us donut rite reel gud its no gud reson to git mad or nothin. Anyways, anybody whos anybody nows that airplans fli kos of money, not smarts. Rite?

Think abowt it lik this: yu kan teech a monke to fli if yu hav enuf money, but yu kan never teech him to spel gud.
 
:D :D :D
 
Mmmm donuts! (doughnuts?)

Anyway, AvBug's response reminds me of a poem I once read.


  • Eye half a spelling chequer
    It came with my pea sea
    It plainly marques four my revue
    Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

    Eye strike a key and type a word
    And weight four it two say
    Weather eye am wrong oar write
    It shows me strait a weigh.

    As soon as a mist ache is maid
    It nose bee fore two long
    And eye can put the error rite
    Its rare lea ever wrong.

    Eye have run this poem threw it
    I am shore your pleased two no
    Its letter perfect awl the weigh
    My chequer tolled me sew

    - Anonymous
 
Don't take these posts too personally, ipilot. I realize that many people spend a lot of time in the internet "subculture" where these abbreviations are considered normal. Be advised, as stated above, you are doing yourself no favors as a pilot or instructor when you choose to adopt the style of posting at the top of this thread. I'm not saying this as a broadcaster, technical writer, announcer, actor, or instructor. Strictly as a pilot, proper English, properly used, is a mark of a pilot who can be trusted with expensive aircraft and the lives of customers.

That said, let me underscore this point for you. Prepare for takeoff in a training situation BEFORE you tell ATC that you are ready for takeoff. In the Lear, we have several "runway items" that we check after receiving a takeoff clearance. They have all been accomplished before the nose is aligned with the centerline.

In a training scenario, I made certain that both the student and myself were well prepared for takeoff, takeoff without delay, or position and hold. Unless you have been asked to take that position and hold there, don't. Have the prep work done before you and the airplane taxi onto the runway. Perhaps this is the reason that ATC seems upset. They aren't seeing what they consider to be "normal procedures" from you.

If you need more time to cope with a situation, tell ATC your intentions, even if you are intending on taxiing up the runway to the next taxiway and making your way back to the threshold.
 
thanks for all those who replied on the original subject. thanks also to those who didn't replied on the original subject. this board is to share views between different people and what i wrote was the thing i was feeling.
i wanted people to reply on the ATC's and see if anyone agrees with me and sharing their experiences. but i guess everyone can point out mistakes on other people very good. about the pet peeves thing, i still don't care as i'm not here to impress anyone of u. avbug made a little joke of the things but its still good if i can read it. i don't say that its good to write those stuff but it surely saves sometime and when the things r not very important then it doesn't matter. i'm not going to tell my student any short cuts if its not safe and i'm certainly not going to write short hand on my resume but internet is different. as usual bobby and timebuilder r on the money. :o


________________________
Check that its three greens.....
 
Sheet far .... ah cain't even spell Ay Tee See.

Minh
(How 'bout dat N.C. skool system?) :D
 
Generally speaking most people take information found on the internet with a grain of salt. Obviously there is no exception here.

ipilot, I wish you all the luck in your future endeavors with the English language.


ali
 
Holy $hit this is one of the funniest threads that I have read in a while.

"Radio, whats that? Does it have anything to do with the 6 clocks on this thing?"
 
The monkey IS president.

(ever notice how those ears stick out, little neck, and those beady eyes? Next time you watch the news, picture a tail, and tell me if I'm right...)
 
Ipilot,

Now that we're done having our yucks, I do want to address your origional post in detail, because there are some important issues here.

First of all, don't take the runway until you're ready for takeoff. Don't call ready, until you're ready for takeoff. You indicated that you were waiting for the engine gages to come up in the green. You're not ready for takeoff if your powerplant isn't ready for takeoff. This being the case, you have no business on that runway, period.

Every aircraft in the world will be congregating on that runway at some point. A runway, somewhere. That makes the runway a highly likely place for a collision, and one should minimize one's time on the runway. Be ready to go and very alert when you enter it. Don't spend time sitting, reading checklists, or doing anything else there. When you cross the threshold, you're eyes up, and ready.

I won't criticize your broken english, but I didn't understand what you meant when you indicated you were holding on the runway and another aircraft was cleared onto the runway. If you had been cleared for takeoff, then no aircraft should have been cleared onto the runway. If you were told to position and hold, then there is no issue with you waiting in position, as you're adhering to ATC instruction. Your description of the event does not make sense.

I don't understand why the controller became upset at your delay with your student, if you were instructed to position and hold. This indicates to me that you weren't on a position and hold clearance. Your description seems to indicate that you were cleared for takeoff, and then took the runway and spent time doing pretakeoff checks on the runway. If this is the case, the tower controller had every right to be displeased.

Perhaps you can clarify what actually happened.

It also appears possible that the situation you're describing involved an expedited takeoff. You may be describing a request from the controller to expedite your takeoff in order to accomodate the needs of traffic landing on an adjacent runway. If the aircraft is just touching down and will be rolling onto your runway, this is tantamount to a LAHSO type operation, and I would probably refuse the clearance to take off until I had a good idea of what the other aircraft is doing. Again, there's little detailed information to go on here; all we know is that you accepted a clearance when you weren't ready (and didn't inform the controller), and that another aircraft was involved.

Think about the example this shows the student. Certainly you want to give the student time to accomplish his or her checklist and preparation. Rushing kills. Certainly you want to show the student the proper way to handle this situation. Even in a remidial way, if necessary. Everything discussed here can be avoided by holding short until all your preparations are complete. You shouldn't have to review the checklist on the runway, or write things down, make calls, or do anything else that might divert your attention from the oh-so-important task of takeoff.

Takeoff is the most critical phase of the flight; being on the runway is also a very critical time. You need to strive to show the student the important of this, and the example you set is the single most important thing you can do to reinforce this in the student's mind. I encourage you to review your proceedures and methods, and look at them from the point of view as to what is best for the student. The student is, after all the reason you're there. Good luck!!
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom