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ATA vs Jetblue---and the Ad swipe at OAK

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
ATA Airlines' anti-Oakland ad may not fly
Associated Press

NEW YORK - "There is no there there," Gertrude Stein once sniffed of her childhood hometown of Oakland, Calif.

ATA Airlines thinks travelers looking to fly between New York and San Francisco may feel the same way.

In a radio advertisement that's aired in the New York area, the low-fare carrier touts that its flights take passengers directly to San Francisco, not Oakland - an apparent gibe at fast-growing rival JetBlue Airways Corp. (JBLU).

Attacking the "weak spot" in its competitor's business plan is the right direction, according to several marketing experts.

But ATA Airlines veers off course by also taking a swipe at Oakland itself, saying that being sold a ticket to Oakland when you want to fly to San Francisco is "kind of like a restaurant serving you the gristle part of a steak because, well, it's right next to the meat."

"It's a neat idea to try and turn customers against JetBlue, which obviously has the edge right now," Paul Argenti, professor of corporate communication at Dartmouth's Tuck School of Business, said. "But the dangerous part is comparing Oakland to the fat on steak. You're asking for trouble from that community. It's dumb to cut off that constituency."

Mignon Monroe, an Oakland native living in Jersey City, N.J., said she finds the ad insulting and wouldn't book another flight on ATA Airlines, which is owned by ATA Holdings Corp., Indianapolis.

"It's obvious that whoever thought this ad was a good idea wasn't really familiar with the Bay Area or its residents," said Monroe, a frequent flier between the East and West coasts. "The snobbish mentality that suggests San Francisco is the only destination in the Bay Area is ignorant and shortsighted."

Rick Larsen, ATA Airlines' vice president of advertising and sales, played down the significance of the Oakland insult.

"If your ultimate destination is Oakland that's fine," he said. "We want to push the fact that we take you right into San Francisco."

The radio spot is part of a new ATA advertising campaign created with Romani Brothers, a new Chicago ad agency the airline hired earlier this year, replacing Publicis Groupe's (PUB) Publicis, of New York, in a bid to cut costs.

Oakland Mayor Jerry Brown shrugged off the radio ad's barb.

"It's a good gimmick to get people in to San Francisco," Brown said in an interview. "But if you want to avoid the fog, come to Oakland."

The mayor pointed out that the flow of passenger traffic at Oakland airport is growing twice as fast than at San Francisco International, in large part because Oakland has a lot less fog.



It has only just begun--as the LCC's get bigger---they will attack each other more and more.

Bye Bye--General Lee
;) :rolleyes: :cool:
 
The ATA ad cracks me up. It certainly will backfire. The folks at the Port Authority in Oakland are a pretty sharp bunch, and this ad will be spoofed in no time. Secondly, the population in the East Bay is almost as large (if not larger) than the population on the peninsula (SFO side), so to snub one side over the other just builds animousity. The costs are much higher in SFO (both for passengers and for airlines), as are the hassles. Granted, OAK has limited international flights, but for domestic trips, many passengers MUCH prefer OAK over SFO.

As a 20+ year Bay Area resident, I have to laugh at the suggestion that flying into San Francisco airport will get you into the city of San Francisco faster than flying into Oakland. First off, as anyone flying into SFO knows, the delays can be horrendous due to the fog, while there are rarely delays into OAK. Secondly, it is often faster to catch a ride from OAK into the city than from SFO into the city. Granted, BART (the subway) goes direct from SFO to the city now, but it still takes 50 minutes.

Of course, I live on the OAK side of the bay, so I am partial to that airport. I used to fly trips out of all three airports (SFO, OAK, SJC), and I much preferred the OAK trips, because I knew I would get home on time.

Skirt
 
Haven't seen the ad yet.

But me thinks ATA will be happy if people quit saying "ATA? never heard of them".

I think the ad, as described above, is meant to peal attention away from JetBlue. A difficult proposition since they are media darlings. Since NewYorkers (Americans in general?) think they are the center of the universe they will certainly chuckle at Oakland being roasted.


And....Its already working per the article posted above and this thread.
 
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Too Funny

Once again, as I have said many times before; if the other guys (Song, ATA, AirTran, Ted, whoever) would spend all that energy and the resources towards improving their own products as opposed to "knocking us off" maybe they would find their own success sooner. They just don't get it. We have a better product, plain and simple. The funny thing is that it is not the TV's, new planes, or any of the other crap that it's touted to be...it's all about the people at jetBlue and their attitudes and performance. Copy that and you will be successful. You cannot take it away from us, no way, no how, period.

Have a Happy Holiday Season
 
Jetblue320,

Song is spending a lot of money (Delta's money) to make their product better than yours---better IFE, better food, etc. They also have hired only people from Mainline that "fit the cheery standard"---whatever that means.... I see those Song people all the time, and they love working JUST FOR SONG--not Mainline. I don't think Song has taken any "personal swipes" at whole cities, though......

Bye Bye--General Lee;) :rolleyes:
 
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No offense general, but "the cheery standard" sounds like something the DOD or the Kremlin would have cooked up during the good old days of the Cold War. What the hell is it anyway?

As to Oakland, I'll take it anyday over SFO. Anyone is cabable of getting his or her butt in a Bart seat and being across the bay in minutes without the potential nightmare of SFO delays.
 
Re: Re: Too Funny

UM#1 said:
...You get my point. I'm sure it's a great place to work, but employess at the "other places" , many that I work with, have been through alot for "their" company and still put a smile on their face when they come to work, there are always the bad apples. Must be nice being the cocky new guy on the block.....

UM,

Keep in mind that a great percentage of JetBlue pilots spent years (14+ in my case) working for "their" former companies before getting furloughed. We've all been through alot, as well. The airline itself may be the "new kid on the block", but trust me, there's nothing new regarding the experience level in the cockpits at JetBlue.

No "koolaid", or "cocky" here. Just someone who's been at "other places", and simply prefers the "cheery standard" here at JetBlue.

In any regards, have a happy and safe holiday season!

DL :D
 
Mr 320,
Lets not turn this into a Jetb vs ATA thread. We don't need to copy your product ours is equally as good. You only offer a few more channels instead of movies and sitcoms. The ad never directed anything towards jetb. Perhaps all the legacy (general lee) folks would love nothing more than to see the lowcost folks on here start in on each other. There's no need for that. Best of luck to all you jetblue guys.
 
Hi,

I think without question it is the T.V.'s that make the product on JetBlue. Case in point, I love JetBlue and love the people at JetBlue (I work for ATA). Very nice group, in general, although each airline has its bad apples.

Anyway, I was on a flight from JFK-FLL a few weeks ago and the TV system was not operating on the aircraft. The JetBlue folks tried to do the best they could, but there was almost a riot on board. People were not happy at all.

Put people in front of a TV and they are occupied, but if those TV's aren't there even though JetBlue folks are as nice as they can possibly be it doesn't overcome the general anger and anxiety people have flying these days.

I've been to SFO and OAK. SFO by far is a better airport, more services, more room, etc. And, quite honestly, even though I work for ATA I do think JetBlue does a bit better in the customer service department.

It is just an ad. Where is the love? I wish both companies the best of success.
 
Re: Re: Too Funny

UM#1 said:
Man that must be some good tasting Blue kool aid over there...So I guess all the employees at "the other guys" (the ones below you right) who have endure years of hardship, goodship, fellowship, tough times, bad times, lean times, thin times, paycuts, deregulation, crashes/accidents, retirements, friendship,etc,etc are still not at the level of a "Jet Blue" employee. As much as you'd like to believe, Jet Blue is not perfect and has alot to still prove. If your "performance" is so great then why not have #1 in all the DOT stats, or in consumer complaints (lack of), why did Jet Blue piss of thousands of people by selling personal info? You get my point. I'm sure it's a great place to work, but employess at the "other places" , many that I work with, have been through alot for "their" company and still put a smile on their face when they come to work, there are always the bad apples. Must be nice being the cocky new guy on the block.....

First off, yes, the kool aid tastes good. And secondly, and more importantly, I never said we were perfect, I simply stated we have a better product. And for what it is worth, I have been in this business (through quite a few furloughs and airlines shot out from underneath) for 26 years all together. Hardly qualifies me as a "new guy on the block". The airline, yes we are new and doing a pretty darn good job at it. If we weren't then why all the worry?

Besides, don't take my previous post too personally, I was directing it mainly at "other airlines" management styles.

Anyway, try to have a good holiday.

C ya
 
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MDP727 said:
Mr 320,
Lets not turn this into a Jetb vs ATA thread. We don't need to copy your product ours is equally as good. You only offer a few more channels instead of movies and sitcoms. The ad never directed anything towards jetb. Perhaps all the legacy (general lee) folks would love nothing more than to see the lowcost folks on here start in on each other. There's no need for that. Best of luck to all you jetblue guys.

No sir, that wasn't my point. Actually, I haven't read the ad, nor do I care to. I don't place much credence in anything the press has to say anyway, especially about airlines. I have never flown on ATA so to judge them from a product quality perspective would not to fair. I was simply stating my "opinion" on the apparent efforts the other airlines take to "knock us off" or otherwise do damage to our business. Don't take it personally, it wasn't intended to be an attack, it was just my observation. I wish well to all the other airlines and wasn't trying to turn this thread into a JB vs. ATA. Besides, I didn't start the thread anyway.

See ya and Merry Christmas.
 
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The funny thing is that flying into SFO isn't flying into San Francisco the city anyhow. When you fly into SFO, you fly into San Bruno, which is just south of "the city" and about the same distance from downtown SF as OAK. Ultimately people don't give a rat's arse about where they ultimately fly into as much as they care about the cost of getting there.:eek:
 
Skank,

I made up that phrase. As far as the people I have met on Song (the dedicated Song only flight attendants)--they really enjoy flying it and like the schedules etc... What I am saying is that they are interviewed and a lot DO NOT MAKE THE CUT. They are not the same old mainline flight attendant---they are more cheery. As far as the current mainline ones--a lot are older and not happy about going back to reserve after they furloughed all of the younger flight attendants. (I think we are down 4 to 5,000 flight attendants total) There is no real retirement plan---so most stay at Delta---and live by themselves with a condo and a cat. But, that is NOT the case on Song---and most are very happy to be there and it shows.


MDP727,

There is no doubt that we (at the legacy carriers) want to see some LCC infighting. It will happen eventually---because you are GROWING. Sooner or later you will have to fight eachother for those passengers. Look at what Southwest did at PHL. The first six routes they chose will affect atleast 3 LCCs. PHL-MDW (you guys), PHL-PHX/LAS--America West, and PHL--TPA/MCO--Airtran. Yes, USAir will also be affected, but they seemed to target you guys too. It will only get worse. The yeilds on those routes will get lower too. Now, I also think that the LCCs will try to invade legacy hubs, but carriers like Delta will do everything possible to hurt the newcomers, while living with guys like Airtran in their backyard. Jetblue figured this out at ATL---and they moved their assets to another city--BOS. Also, it will be tougher to find gate space at the legacy hubs because the Majors are bringing BACK capacity (Delta---8-10% in 2004). Most of the Majors have trimmed down their costs and are in better shape to fight, and to top it off, the economy and fares are getting better.


My point of this thread was that ATA made an error by creating an ad that pi$$ed off a city and an airline. They need to look at their ad firm again IMO.

Bye Bye---General Lee :rolleyes:
 
Point taken General, although I don't remember anyone in the article from Jetb stating they were pissed off or upset at ATA.
Two LCC's already compete at a major city airport. SWA and ATA compete in each others backyard at MDW, just fine. Together we are slowly taking over the Chicago market. We already fly to alot of each others destinations at the same times even. We don't walk around MDW with attitudes towards each other and even welcome each other as jumpseaters. Will SWA and ATA completely dominate the Chicago market? Probably not, MDW won't support the traffic or passengers like ORD will. Nevertheless a good example of two LCC's operating at the same airport without having to have the ---we will smash and crush you into oblivion while wiping you off the face of the planet--- attitude some of you pratice at the legacy carriers such as AA, UAL, and DAL.
Merry XMAS
 
MDP727,

I understand that, and I think MDW is the "low cost" airport of Chicago, but it will never be an O'hare---because of lack of space. You guys have added a nice new terminal, but try going for 2 or 3 more terminals to compete with O'hare. You can't---MDW is small by nature. But, you and SW do compete with each other on some routes (LAS, PHX, SEA, MCO, TPA, LAX, SJC, PHL, etc.) and you both seem to be doing fine. But, as you both expand, expect more competition----that is all I am saying here.

I don't think that Jetblue "hates" ATA----I just thought the ad was bad towards people in OAK---and some of them might want to drive over the bay bridge to SFO to fly you to EWR or MDW or Hawaii. You have great fares to Lihue, Kahalui, and Honolulu---and some people may want to make the drive. But, this ad campaign isn't a good one----and I don't think Jetblue is taking it too hard.

You are right about the attitude of some of the Majors---they do want to get rid of the LCCs. When they see someone treading on their "turf"---they retaliate--regardless of the cost. I am sure it cost Delta a lot to try to get Jetblue out of ATL---and it eventually worked---but we both lost. Look what NW is doing from DEN-LAX now that Frontier wants to go from LAX-MSP. That is NUTS---why are they now trying DEN-LAX? Good question. (I am asking and answering my own questions.....I am going nuts)

Take care and merry x-mas to you too.

Bye bye---General Lee:rolleyes: ;)
 

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