ATA Update

[eagleatr]

I heard this yesterday, straight from the mouth of a VP, so take it for what it's worth:

Boeing approached us (ATA) to take between 70 and 100 B717's. As part of the deal, Boeing would give us $1 million per aircraft we take, fully finance all aircraft, provide an operating certificate, and also provide a training program. The first aircraft would be delivered within 4 months of negotiating payrates. The aircraft to be delivered are ones that were orderd by TWA, and the money comes from a deposit made by Spirit Airlines on the 717, before they went with Airbus (apparently, the deal from Airbus was so good they left their deposit).

There are five potential new bases for this aircraft: PIE, CLT, PIT, RDU, and one he would not name. According to him, management is hot to get this done ASAP. They are looking at lots of new cities and lots of hiring if this happens.

Of course, this could all change, but as of Friday, 4/16/04 at about 1500, this was the lateset straight from the VP.



EagleATR

 

[UM#1]

I believe it from what I've heard and also the way mgt is acting. It can be done quickly, when we got the 737's training was done at boeing before we got our program together and operating certificates can easily be gotten if other airlines are already operating the same equipment. Should be interesting to see what happens with all this...

 

[njcapt]

Sounds plausable. I just hope our negotiators can get some kind of guarantee that we won't be peddling away the 737's any time soon. Without it the 717 acquisition could just become a glorified B-scale for the ATA pilots.

Having said that, I'm already typed for the 717 and am willing to be the first Captain on the property (after differences, obviously).

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Sorry Johann....

Might have to finally exercise that Captain Bid if the 717 comes to CLT or RDU.

But hey....I'll rent you a room in my house for use as a crashpad at reasonable rates.

 

[halfmoon]

let me guess. the one other base he wouldn't name is.....PHL?

 

[njcapt]

Sorry Johann....

Might have to finally exercise that Captain Bid if the 717 comes to CLT or RDU.

But hey....I'll rent you a room in my house for use as a crashpad at reasonable rates.

OK. You can go first, you putz. Wouldn't it suck to have to comute to PHL? You would be number 200 on the jumpseat list on a US Airways 767.

let me guess. the one other base he wouldn't name is.....PHL?

Jesus Hernandez, I hope not. All we need is another hub going head to head with Southwest. US Airways would be OK.

 

[Heavy Set]

If ATA were to announce a new hub using 717s and 737-800s out of PHL, PIT or CLT, that would probably be the nail in the coffin for USAirways IF they could get the aircraft (and train the crews) quickly... If it takes a year or so to build some scale, then USAirways might have a chance to make some pro-Siegel changes (to the pilots' detriment). Of course, you would also need to secure gates and local workers - I am sure some intense negotiations are starting.

A couple of questions:

1. Are there idle 717s out there that could be acquired quickly? If so, how many would you estimate (maybe ex-TWA)?

2. Are there idle or available gates at CLT, PIT, PHL or RDU?

3. Midway demonstrated that RDU was difficult to crack - do you think ATA could do a lot better at RDU?

A MDW-only strategy obviously won't work over the long-term for ATA given the capacity/infrastructure constraints there. I hope they can make something work and fly the 717s soon - and I hope it leads to more hiring!

 

[TankerPuke]

What is currently the most junior base for ATA?

PUKE

 

[ataopsdave]

What is currently the most junior base for ATA?

PUKE

MDW is currently junior for both aircraft

 

[sayagain?]

njcapt-

Go ahead and bid the 717 Capt. slot. But with your luck in just trying to get trained on the 757, me thinks that you'll be pulling your hair out when they mess up your bid again.

sayagain?

PS- I know a place that does cheap dry cleaning!

 

[mt2]

Hmmm

Would this CLT crashpad be called "The house of JEF(f)"?

PS -- Johann, plausible for the content or because we have 75 or so VP's which makes them so accessible?

MT

 

[BoilerUP]

I think the 717 is a great aircraft, and its economics could open up a whole bunch of cities that couldn't support the 738 (namely LEX?? ).

This having been said, I've seen alot recently about ATA's heavy debt load for their new fleet. How could they afford to take on 20 new planes, let alone 70-100? That looked like a pretty favorable financing deal from Boeing...I guess its better to get $0.50 on the dollar than nothing at all.

Make sure you all post when ATA starts interviewing again. I really enjoy talking to the ATA interviewees when they are flying the sim here at Purdue.

 

[njcapt]

1. Are there idle 717s out there that could be acquired quickly? If so, how many would you estimate (maybe ex-TWA)?

Rumor has it that there are 20 or so of them sitting in the desert from the TWA and MidEx deals. There have been some other cancelled orders from other non-US carriers that might be available, also.

PS -- Johann, plausible for the content or because we have 75 or so VP's which makes them so accessible?

MT

Both, Mike. I wouldn't take the word of one of our 5 Chief Pilots, though.

This having been said, I've seen alot recently about ATA's heavy debt load for their new fleet. How could they afford to take on 20 new planes, let alone 70-100? That looked like a pretty favorable financing deal from Boeing...I guess its better to get $0.50 on the dollar than nothing at all.

That's why I'm so worried about the 737 fleet going away. George wants to be rid of the high capacity 737's and the related debt issues. I would hate to see us give up a high paying fleet for a B-scale one.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Wow! This is a tough issue. For those of you on the outside looking in, we don't exactly know what will happen.

The promise seems to be 717's as an addition to the current aircraft in the fleet. What I would like to see is a slow ramp up with the 717 to assure success.

But....we can speculate on all sorts of bad scenarios if the economy, company financials, and boeing/creditor issues overcome the plan. Can the plan be derailed after it starts to happen/if it happens? I don't know.

Paranoid guys like myself are the only ones I know of that have said anything about giving back airplanes currently on the property. With the exception of the L-1011s. We have been talking about that fleet (6 aircraft) being replaced or parked when maintenance issues warrant.

I do know that we are working very hard to fill the 738s and increase rasm. If we can't do that it may be foolish to keep them.

 

[mach zero]

From FlyBoeingJets

I do know that we are working very hard to fill the 738s and increase rasm. If we can't do that it may be foolish to keep them.

I just flew a 3 day pairing in the 738 with the following loads:
MDW-LAX 161 / 175
LAX-PIE (red eye) 61 / 175
PIE-MDW 175 / 175

On my commute home (MDW-DFW) this am there were only about 10 open seats as well.

In my opinion we need the 738's on some of these routes. I just think we need to evaluate some markets and redeploy them. The mgmnt person I talked to said this was in the plan.

 

[its none ya]

The 737 are not going anywere... The 717's are to replace the light load cities the 737 does, along with new ones that we will adventually service. The 737 is to pick up the 757 routes that are to light for the 200 to 247seats on it. Along with the new mexico destinations that George wants to do. And the 757 will do PHNL, PHOG, etc off the west coast along with the cities that have heavy loads. It will also back up the L1011 for military charter.

This is the plan anyway