ATA or USAir--Which one would you rather work for?

[FlyBoeingJets]

We're all about "My airline is better than your Airline". So here is another thread of that genre...


Criteria--From a job security/income potential point of view (as it always should be) which one would you rather be working at right now. Or furloughed from. Please feel free to make any assumption about the future that you think is likely or plausible.

Or....Use whatever criteria you think is appropriate.


My take:

Better to be at ATA.

Pro's

--Company taken private. Management firmly focused on making it work.
--Great (IMHO) codeshare future with SWA.
--Downsizing was brutal but is now over. I see upsizing as the next direction.
--Don't have to deal with merger issues now afflicting USAir


Con's

--Haven't checked lately, but pay may be less at ATA.
--Future assumptions on my part are not too firm

 

[FedEx1]

What a stupid thread. Like either are hiring right now???? Or any time in the near future????

Why stir this pot? Hopefull the guys at ATA and USAir won't take your bait....

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

What a stupid thread. Like either are hiring right now???? Or any time in the near future????

Why stir this pot? Hopefull the guys at ATA and USAir won't take your bait....

I'll slow it down for you. The reason this may be of interest is, if you work for or are furloughed from one of the above, you have some decisions to make. Do I stay or do I go? No decision is still a decision.

I believe ATA's future is brighter than guys like you believe. And for those of us not working for them we need to stay humble and respect these two carriers. They will be stronger in a couple of years.

This may be a stupid thread, but your post is waayyy more stupid. So there.


They don't take my "bait" because they know its not. But I guess I took yours.

 

[FNG_that's me]

I don't know who's stupid vs. who is waayyy stupid...however,

FBJ, why the comparison between these two carriers if the your reason is stated above in paragraph one of your second post? Not like a guy that is furloughed from one can jump to the other.

I agree that this is an issue best avoided; not because it will result in a heated debate, but because there is nothing to be gained by it.

Perhaps a "what carrier should you stay with if you are furloughed vs. jumping ship to another" thread would be helpful...nevermind, it would just be another 'mine is better than yours,' which you alluded to in your first post.

 

[HalinTexas]

I'll play.

It all depends on seniority. AWA/USA haven't integrated their's yet, and ATA's keeps getting smaller.

ATA is going to furlough another 45 or so, April 30.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Maybe the topic is too hot. I guess letting it die may be best.


I haven't heard much about the 2 lately and have been thinking about them. I am always interested in the future of the industry and the future of those in it. I have friends at ATA and USAir, but I am not so I have no dog in it.

Just an interest in things airline related.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Something I think is of some interest to the ATA folks--


The ATA codeshare deal is a hot topic amongst SWA pilots. They know ATA can do it cheaper and we (ATA and SWA, collectively) may be able to make more money if SWA management lets ATA do a lot of flying "for" SWA.

It's definitely good for ATA short term and may be good long term too.

SWA pilots are generally worried about it. Who knows what will come of it in the future.

 

[HalinTexas]

The deal is better for SWA than for ATA. SWA will get their profit sharing check(s) and ATA might stay in business. SWA is the much bigger winner here.

ATA has put all their eggs in two baskets. One, is military charter. It's not that steady and we need more wide bodies to do it. It has saved our a$$es a few times in our history. Two, SWA codeshare. We've given up nearly all of our scheduled service. Subsequently, SWA has moved into nearly every market we've pulled out of. Very soon, no scheduled service will be completely independent of the codeshare. The HI part isn't going so well, either.

Unless there is a substantial change very soon, I don't see ATA being around for the long term. At the very least it will not be any better than just another charter airline. If fact, less of a charter airline than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[Formula1]

OK I'll play as well- As HalinTexas just mentioned there is another group from ATA getting furloughed next month (April 30th) -myself included in that group of furloughees. I have been at ATA for almost 5 years and am finally getting the ax.

I would stop my post here but since I was hired at America west last year in March and still reside in the hiring pool there I think that this post applies to me. And after getting furloughed from ATA next month and still being in the pool at AWA as long as they do not kick the poolies out of the pool then I think that USAir would be a better place to go to for a job.

Although ATA has supposedly shrunk as much as it is going to in regards to number of airplanes, it is going to be a while before they really start growing significantly- if ever. I still think that Southwest will eventually not need ATA after the next few years when they are able to do all of their own flying including over water operations- all it takes is money and time and you can do what ever you want to.

USAir is actually getting more airplanes and has (I know they are replacing some of the older ones with the newer ones) already started recalling the furloughees. Some may say it is a messed up company to be at, but I still think that I would rather be there than at ATA. This has nothing to do with the fact that I am getting furloughed next month from ATA but I would still pick USAir even if I wasn't. I think this was a hypothetical question anyways.

Formula1

 

[FNG_that's me]

Not like a guy that is furloughed from one can jump to the other.

I guess I stand corrected....I have found my four leaf clover, and he is Formula1.

 

[Formula1]

I think that as soon as Boeing builds an extended range 737-700 (I have heard by 2008) that then SWA will no longer need ATA to fly the Hawaii flights from LAS and PHX (currently done with the 757-200, 737-800's used from LAX and SFO).

I also think that SWA management will try to play the ATA codeshare against the SWA Pilot group during your next negotiations- I hope that does not happen but it would not surprise me if it did.

 

[SWA/FO]

ATA has some cool cats.. USAWAIRWAYS has some cool cats.

 

[vetrider]

I'll slow it down for you. The reason this may be of interest is, if you work for or are furloughed from one of the above, you have some decisions to make. Do I stay or do I go? No decision is still a decision.

I believe ATA's future is brighter than guys like you believe. And for those of us not working for them we need to stay humble and respect these two carriers. They will be stronger in a couple of years.

This may be a stupid thread, but your post is waayyy more stupid. So there.


They don't take my "bait" because they know its not. But I guess I took yours.

I work for America West. Maybe i'm taking it wrong, but i've heard 9 years worth of put downs at my company, so here it goes, the way i read your post is "which of these two airlines is the bigger loser?"

 

[FedEx1]

I just don't see the reason for the comparison. It's ok to talk about what you could do if you were furloughed from one of these places, or whether or not you should voluntarily leave. But one place has nothing to do with the other. It isn't like you can jump ship and go to the other, or ride out your furlough time at one of them. It isn't as if one of them is about to start recalling, so you have a decision to make as where you want to be.

I'm not a baiter- and I actually regret I even replied to your original post, since I tend not to get involved in these controversies in general.

P.S. HP has alwasy been good to me, vetrider!

 

[cactusboy53]

ATA or USAir

Boeing..
I'm biased (insert..Stupid is as Stupid does), but I was/am pleased to make America West my career home.

The joining (note the lack of words aquisition/merger) of AWA and AAA is going to go down in the airline history books to be sure. The way is goes down is dependent on the Westies and Easties pulling together and making the airline work (instead of a mentality of ....."I'm going to make them all pay"). All debates of seniority aside, we have to pull together to make this work.

Happy Trails!!:beer:

 

[sayagain?]

I was furloughed from both AAA and ATA. Sure know how to pick them!

If I didn't have a job right now and was recalled to both, I would probably pick AAA. But who knows in this business.

 

[uba757]

I'll take which ever is going to be around the longest. UBA757

 

[Formula1]

Hey Sayagain, I sent you a PM.

Formula1

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I work for America West. Maybe i'm taking it wrong, but i've heard 9 years worth of put downs at my company, so here it goes, the way i read your post is "which of these two airlines is the bigger loser?"

Not trying to put down America West. But I've got all kinds of questions about the America West/USAir merger. There seems to be a lot of issues to resolve with the merger and some I'm sure I am not even aware of.

I still can't believe ATA continues to shrink. Word from some ATA folks that they would leave if given the opportunity tells me the light is not yet shining down the tunnel like I thought it was.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I'd forget them both and go to Legacy Airlines in Utica New York! That's where most of the USAir furloughees are going to end up anyway.

We're all going to be 737 Captains...
...just as soon as Padre' calls us with classdates...

yessiree... it's gonna be sweet...

 

[propjob27]

FBJ:

The first few guys who posted were correct. This is a completely ridiculous thread.

You point out,

I'll slow it down for you. The reason this may be of interest is, if you work for or are furloughed from one of the above, you have some decisions to make. Do I stay or do I go? No decision is still a decision

And yet, for some reason, the subject of your thread is "ATA or USAir--Which one would you rather work for?"

The subject of your thread implies that one might have a choice as for who to work for, ATA or USAir, when in fact, neither one of these airlines will be hiring for a LONG time.

Your subject probably should have been something like, "Should I quit ATA for the 1st job offer I get", if you were looking for advice.

 

[RGPilot]

Correct me if I am wrong, I heard the AWA pool no longer exists due to the AAA/AWA agreement to bring back furloughed AAA guys. 55 so far with, from what I have heard, more soon to follow. And that does not include recalls for the E190. So lets stir the pot a little more. Has anyone else heard this? Second, how many of you furloughed AAA pilots will accept recall?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

FBJ:

The first few guys who posted were correct. This is a completely ridiculous thread.

.

Then feel free to walk yourself over to a thread more to your liking.

 

[aroundtheblock]

I'm furloughed AAA. I start at Continental on Tuesday. So no, I'm not going back.

 

[RGPilot]

congrats on CAL...where are you on the APL list?

 

[aroundtheblock]

I was hired 7/99. Metrojet.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I'm furloughed Airways. (early 99') and got a good corporate gig. I'm not going back.

 

[kie8nunu]

I'm an early 99 Airways Hire. Been doing a lot of different things since my 2002 furlough. I'll probably go back if things seem to be heading in the right direction. I have a decent position right now, but it's not a long term gig....

 

[Green]

Correct me if I am wrong, I heard the AWA pool no longer exists due to the AAA/AWA agreement to bring back furloughed AAA guys. 55 so far with, from what I have heard, more soon to follow. And that does not include recalls for the E190. So lets stir the pot a little more. Has anyone else heard this? Second, how many of you furloughed AAA pilots will accept recall?

If it still exists they will definitely have to wait till the 1700 or so furloughed AAA guys are offered recall first. Then there is the matter of what happens with the CEL and the flowthrough from Piedmont and PSA to mainline.

I can´t imagine a merger committee or arbitrator agreeing to put poolies ahead of furloughed employees. If I was in the pool I would look elsewhere as there doesn´t appear to be much meaningful growth in the next 2-3 years at Airways. The 190´s are on the way but we are parking 737´s and older 320´s as well.

 

[Bubba Dog]

I'm furloughed AAA. I start at Continental on Tuesday. So no, I'm not going back.

In my new hire class at USAir in 89 there was a continental captain that quit to come to USAir. I guess things do come full circle sometimes. Good luck at continental!