Ata Or Awa???

[captain]

Say both call around the same time and you get offers from both ATA and AWA? You would have to commute for either job, what would you do?

I am dreaming up this scenario of course!

 

[furloughfodder]

AWA

 

[propjob27]

ATA.

Pay is substantially better.
Better work rules.
Lots of international flying on the 757 and L-1011.

 

[Pickle]

ATA.

 

[rudderdog]

Say both call around the same time and you get offers from both ATA and AWA? You would have to commute for either job, what would you do?

I am dreaming up this scenario of course!

Well....if you commute from STL, go with AWA. From anywhere else in the country, go with ATA.

 

[furloughfodder]

ATA.

Pay is substantially better.
Better work rules.
Lots of international flying on the 757 and L-1011.

I am just not a fan of the debt load (even though it has been pushed back to 2009)

Pay is better for now. But as we all know, if management asks for concessions from the pilot group this is the first thing to go, so DO NOT go someplace because of pay. ALPA is notorious for caving in on pay issues.

Work rules are similar, AWA actually has better work rules with the new contract.

International flying is subjective. Some people like it, others do not.


Good luck!

 

[NDPILOT]

What int'l routes does ATA...I wasn't aware they flew international.?.

The scenario you dreamt up would be a nice one to have!!

 

[furloughfodder]

International Charter, mostly Military work.

What int'l routes does ATA...I wasn't aware they flew international.?.

The scenario you dreamt up would be a nice one to have!!

 

[propjob27]

I disagree about not going somewhere because of money. I think compensation is a VERY important point. Why the hell else do you go to work??

ATA:

For someone starting today: (737/757 rates)

Year 0-1 FO 37.50/hr
Year 1-2 FO 69.28
Year 2-3 FO 86.06
Year 3-4 FO 95.01
Year 4-5 FO 104.06

Year 4-5 Capt 158.35
Year 12+ Capt 187.24

Domestic Perdiem $2.00, International Per Diem $2.40
Some reserve work rules:

2/hr reserve callout lines have 14 days off
12/hr reserve callout lines have 12 days off

Keep in mind our contract is "old" and is expected to get better in July of '05.

As far as debt load, who knows if either company will be around in 30 years. That's just a chance you take in this business. Good luck either way.

 

[Pickle]

Scheduled International

NDPILOT said: "What int'l routes does ATA...I wasn't aware they flew international"

In addition to the military international stuff, we do passenger charter to lots of international places, Ambassadair out of IND does lots of international, and we do scheduled service from MDW-GCM, MDW-CUN, MDW-AUA, MDW-MBJ, MDW-ZIH, MDW-PVR, MDW-GDL, LAX-CUN, SFO-CUN, IND-CUN. Also service to SJU and Hawaii, but that is not actually international.

 

[cactuspilot]

ATA

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Anal pilot alert!

Propjob:

The actual rates in our book are what you quoted, except:

Year 3-4 FO 99.28
Year 4-5 FO 108.74

Year 4-5 Capt 165.47
Year 12+ Capt 195.66

(You forgot the 4 1/2% in the fine print at the bottom)

I'd hate for someone to get the impression we were underpaid...

 

[yaks]

Never heard anyone say they liked working for AWA, whereas I enjoyed my time at ATA and have heard many others say the same. And they are now paid much better than the old days. Crash pads at MDW are an easy walk from the airport and I'm told there is nothing near the airport in PHX. Finally have you looked into AWA's financials. They have been in or on the brink of Ch. 11 several times in the past, not to mention the maintenance violations/fines.

 

[atafan]

I definitely agree with the statement that pay should not be the deciding factor.

I can't say much about AWA but I will offer my 2 cents worth on ATA.

ATA has flown under the radar screen for over 30 years. Not very flashy and not very exciting but a survivor. ATA isn't all that big but what we do we do very well. My short 8 years with this company has been some of the best in my 24 years flying commercially. You couldn't ask for better people to work with and our flight management team is among the best in the industry.

If you want to fly lucrative military charters and see the world that most do not see, you can do that. If you want to fly transcon, transpacific or tranatlantic scheduled, you can do that. If you want to bum around Central America, Caribbean or South America, you can do that as well.

Of course if just flying short haul around the USA is your cup of tea ATA does plenty of that too. Many pilots just mix it up and fly a little of all types of flying just to keep it interesting.

My checks have always been on time and never bounce. I still love coming into work and everyone I see feels the same way. We finally are making pretty good jingle and that's just icing on the cake.

P.S. Let's just keep this a secret between us.

 

[Heavy Set]

Yes, but most ATA pilots have to live in or near cold Chicago or Indy, and you have to risk your life each day landing on that postage stamp called Chicago Midway Airport. Didn't an ATA 757-300s go through an overrun on a summer day? I flew in there one winter night about 10 years back and almost stained my shorts- ice everywhere, poor braking action, heavy snow.....Sounds fun. I think Phoenix would be nicer in terms of lifestyle despite the sweltering heat in the summer....

Regardless, I'd fly for either one in a heartbeat...

 

[IP076]

Yes, but most ATA pilots have to live in or near cold Chicago or Indy,

I don't work there, and I would take either, heck, I don't even meet the mins yet, but....

I know several people who commute, plus, isn't LAX a base also? I guess there are rumors of new bases opening, I heard SFO?

From what I understand, ATA has a good Commuting Policy also.

Plus, Chitowns not too bad. If you can put up with all the white sox fans on the south side.

As for postage stamp...my 208 handles 31L with ease

 

[MDP727]

The majority of our folks live out of Ind or Mdw. Lots in Cent Fla. Not a company requirement. The runways at MDW are no different than any other airport. 3000 ft is 3000 ft no matter which airport. Put them down in there and they will stop everytime.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Not even close...

Heavyset:

I don't know who gave you the bum info, but I can assure you we don't all live near MDW. I'm based in LAX, which has L10's and 757's. IND has all 3 types, SFO has 757's, MDW has 737's/757's, and JFK has L10's. ATA pilots live all over the country, although there is an enermous contingent that live in Florida. Boston area also seems popular for some reason, along with California. Commuting is easy; you can live wherever you want.

 

[texanpilot]

SFO is already a base. Unless you are on Reserve, you do 8-10 Hawaii turns a month, and do nothing the other 20-22 days.

 

[atafan]

I expect to hear about another base also.

My bets are on IAD, our CEO has visions of being the first LCC with a large international route system. I expect to start flying scheduled Trans Atlantic routes connecting with an alliance airline in Eurpoe real soon.

I believe that B767s are just around the corner also.


IMHO

 

[flyndesk]

Heavy Set

You are obviously trying to get on at ATA. Already you are complaining about the bases? And the cold? And the finances? And the MDW incident? That wasn't about the MDW airport, that was all about not following company proedures and not flying a stablized approach.

When the wx gets bad and the snow starts flying, the airport does a pretty good job keeping it clean, or NO ONE will get to land. ATA mans an internal "snow desk" to give up to date braking action reports from other company aircraft.

Most ATA pilots based in MDW don't live in MDW.

 

[brew3departure]

Postage stamp?

Last time I checked, runways at MDW were longer than 6000 feet. I don't live in my dear old home town any more, and yes, it is cold there. It's cold many places this time of year. I don't work for ATA either, but from what I gather, they have reserve work rules that are absolutely second to none. Commutable reserve? You've got to be kidding me. Anywhere else, those two things are mutually exclusive.

Realizing, too, that industry standard for reserve callout is 2 hours (at least, what some would call "short" call) -- I'm not taking a shot at AWA here, but isn't your reserve call out 90 minutes? Food for thought.

-brew3

 

[Heavy Set]

Flyndesk,

It was just tongue and cheek guys... I said "most" ATA pilots - not all. Hey, I'd give my left nut to fly for ATA - I have always said that... Personally, anyone who can land at all at MDW during a snow storm with low visibility deserves a huge pat on the back. I forgot about the LAX hub - I would probably choose that if I had the possibility.

Looking forward to seeing ATA 767s on the line soon.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

ATA or AWA??

All I can think of is.....Uma Oprah, Oprah Uma




Heavy Set,

While MDW is no walk in the park it is definitely safe. Don't be high or fast on approach. Don't let the lack of a large airfield screw with you.

The 757 issue was handled and it was not the airport or airframe at fault.

 

[Flyforyou]

and don't forget that Oprah spelled backwards is Harpo!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Re: Postage stamp?

Realizing, too, that industry standard for reserve callout is 2 hours (at least, what some would call "short" call) -- I'm not taking a shot at AWA here, but isn't your reserve call out 90 minutes? Food for thought.
-brew3

Res callout is 2hrs for short call @AWA

WD.

 

[atafan]

ATA - Long call, Short Call reserves, etc.

ATA has three types of reserves.

"H" - One hour call out. This is used only for extreme measures, snow storms or other uncommon delays. The Company will also pay to put you up in a hotel if you are assigned Reserve H. I have never heard of anyone being assigned Reserve H.

"A" - Two hour call out. A line of Reserve A's equals 14 guaranteed days off.

"B" - 12 hour callout. You may sit at home for an assignment, as long as you can report within 12 hours. A line of reserve B's equals 12 guaranteed days off. It is possible to sit home many of these B days, depending on staffing and other factors.

Senior pilots that live in base sometimes bid Reserve lines because you fly less and can work the system to make a lot of OT while not increasing the number of days away.

ATA has a pay credit cap of 100 hours, before the cap and even before the substantial raise from our current contract I know of some pilots that made $200-$300K a year working the reserve system.

 

[ForgedBlade]

I'm amazed every time I come to work (here at ATA). It's not always perfect, but I have always been treated real well and enjoy every trip. The international flying is a blast - you will see places you have never dreamed of (although it was cold in Poland last week, it sure beat those high-speeds I was doing at my former RJ employer!!!). This is my fifth and hopefully last job in this industry and I wouldn't trade it for anything!