ATA employees not allowed in 1st class?

[General Lee]

I just read on another board that ATA will not allow their employees to occupy 1st class when it arrives later this year. (except management I bet) That doesn't sound very nice---and this was stated in a public press releasee--with the CEO stating that "This is truely a different type of first class" (or something close to that). So, if there are no seats available in coach, and the jumpseat is taken, can an ATA employee take a seat in first?? I guess not....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rudderdog]

It's not as cruel as it sounds. At least not yet. Employees and non-rev's will not be left behind. Upgrades will be offered for a fee or business class will be filled with customers to open up coach if needed. I suppose it will be filled on a preferred customer basis but not sure exactly what the system will be.

 

[a320drivr]

From what I have seen and heard Sun Country employees are not allowed in First Class unless they pay nor are jumpseaters.

 

[Noam]

I work at ATA, and I have no problem with not sitting in first class. The idea has already gotten good press in several NYC newspapers, and NYC is a market ATA is still lagging in.

No plane will leave non-rev's behind (first class will be filled with paying customers first), then non-rev's can take their coach seats.

Also, no employee, NOT EVEN EXECUTIVES AND MANAGEMENT will sit in first class. The company has been very progressive about this.

While I think most at ATA have relatively good morale, I've been in UAL all too often in first class and not been able to nap because some witch employee is complaining about their situation, or some $300K/yr captain complaining about how much life sucks (obviously, several years ago).

Noam

 

[Heavy Set]

Nice message to ATA employees from George: you're not good enough to sit in first class... I hope George sits in the last row in economy near the crapper when he flies his airline... I won't bet on it. Strange given that ATA attracts mainly price-conscious leisure travellers - how different could its first class product be? It must be DRAMATICALLY nicer than anything else to exclude "second-class" airline employees....

 

[General Lee]

That's funny Heavy Set!

I have been fortunate enough to non-rev a couple times during the slow seasons (OCT-NOV and MAR-APR) to Europe on Delta and have sat in Business class and really enjoyed the great meals and great service (even from our senior stews)--and loved sitting in the very comfortable 767-300ER business elite seats---and all for no money---just because it was a great perk for working hard for Delta. If we have jumpseaters from any airline on board and there is a seat in first class---the stews will usually give it to you if you are nice---because it is a perk for working in this industry. Noam----if you need a jumpseat on us from MDW to ATL on one of our 738's--and there is a seat open in first----it is all yours.....Enjoy!

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[TrimixDeepDiver]

Haha General and Heavy you legacy guys crack me up. The LCC carrier comes up with a good idea and you try to sh1t all over it with your "higher than almighty" attitude. First and foremost ATA putting in business class is not to reward the employee with a nice seat on their way to their vacation, it's to make the company Money and Generate Revenue. Something Delta is having a hard time doing these days! Second, from the ATA employees I've talked to while I use them to jumpseat to work, the overall consensus I've gotten is as long as no non-rev and jumpseaters are left behind they don't really care about not sitting in business class. Seems like most of those people at ATA actually enjoy their job, their industry leading pay, good bennies, great employees, being with a company that is making money and it's managers running the show are doing whats necessary to keep the books in black not red and most importantly not create a situation where it has to create an airline within an airline, take 30% of pay, furlough, etc,etc,etc. And Third, I can't tell you how many times I've sat in Delta's First Class (used to be a salesman in my former life and flew first 3 times a month) as a paying customer and have had to listen to employees biotch and complain about the company, especially during the Allen 7.5 days...By the way what has happened to Delta's first class anyway, those md80's look like chit warmed over (seats all torn, leather's bad) and those old a$$ 732? Anyway I wish my airline would take some of the steps like ATA to generate more revenue to ensure my future, but then again we are already half way to putting one legacy on the bidding block...So general when you're on your next European vacation sitting up in business class cause it's empty, think about your fellow pilot on furlough and those paycuts your gonna have to take..cause in the big scheme of things job security is what is most important in the end. Good luck

 

[IB6 UB9]

"So general when you're on your next European vacation sitting up in business class cause it's empty..."

Ha ha...well said. There are a select few amongst us who wish they could wear five epaulets, especially in the grocery store on their days off. Please continue to inform us little people about any vacations in the future!

 

[Heavy Set]

Trimixdeepdiver,

Nice bitter attitude. You have got to be kidding me... Do you read what you write? If the seat is EMPTY, then an employee should be able to sit in it and not be restricted to steerage... That is the point. I doubt that every ATA flight will be 100% full and that all of the First Class seats will be occupied every single flight. I am sure that given the choice, you would prefer to sit next to the crapper in the very back of the 757-300 vs. a comfy (and empty) First Class seat - right?

The point is SIMPLE: if the seat is empty (meaning unsold), the employee should have the ability to sit in it. This has NOTHING to do with Delta vs. LCC. It is nice to know that IF you do take a trip to Europe on Delta, at least you might have access to a nice seat - don't expect the same treatment on ATA in the future (it is a nice perk for all airline employees)...

 

[KC-10 Driver]

What's the big deal?

On US Airways, employees, furloughees, and other non-rev pax can not ride in first class unless they purchase an upgrade ($20 for short-haul domestic; more for long-haul domestic and international). Even if coach is full, non-revs can not ride in first class without an upgrade.

However, if you present yourself as a pilot jumpseater, you will get whichever seat is available (no fee required, aside from international taxes).

Additionally, non-rev children under a certain age--I think eight--are prohibited from first class, even with an upgrade.

I always assumed this was fairly normal procedure. Is it not?

Of course, if you have one class only on your aircraft, this becomes much less of an issue...

 

[calfo]

The General has it right... On a long SEA-EWR, or some such, deadhead, first is the best place to be. Not that it happens often, but during the monthly changover, some weird dh gets tossed around. On dh, we go from aisle, to window, to exit row, then to first class.

The flight attendants in first like giving fellow employees the first class treatment also... kinda like showing off for the guys that don't usually get to see what goes on back there.

Of course, my daughter came with me on one LGA turn and got first class - she thinks she'll get it every time now. And my wife got first BOTH ways from LAS (unheard of!)...

It is an important perk to hand out to employees. I'm sure ATA will dangle it as a bargaining chip in their next negotiations... nothing comes without a price.

 

[General Lee]

Trimix,

Well, I said I went to Europe during the slower months----the other months you can hardly get a seat because they are all FULL. But we all know your planes are always full----just like the EWR to SFO flights (ooops---cnxed March 15th).

As far as pay cuts---even with a 30% pay cut I will probably make more than you---and our furloughs will be coming back soon--especially if our retirements continue the way they have. I continue to support the furloughs---contributing to the furlough funds and sponsoring a couple. They know I care.

You still haven't really addressed why ATA is doing that to their employees. It stinks. We allow non-revs after all of our frequent fliers are upgraded---and then go for employees as a perk. Not everyone makes it--but if there is room they are allowed to sit there. ATA's will be "a different kind of first class..." HMMMMM.
And oh yeah---all of our flights are empty......Hmmmm. Wrong. I even checked the Song flights this weekend--and almost all are full. Enjoy Kuwait. (You fly for a MAJOR LCC?---Ummm ok. Read these last couple posts--your argument $ucks)


Ib6 UB9,

I am sooo glad that you work constantly. I happen to enjoy my life, love my wife, love my job, feel very lucky to have it and to be still flying, and like to travel on my vacation time. I guess you don't. I guess you can nonrev to LGB and watch TV along the way. Good for you. Enjoy Yonkers.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TrimixDeepDiver]

Trimixdeepdiver,

Nice bitter attitude. You have got to be kidding me... Do you read what you write? If the seat is EMPTY, then an employee should be able to sit in it and not be restricted to steerage... That is the point. I doubt that every ATA flight will be 100% full and that all of the First Class seats will be occupied every single flight. I am sure that given the choice, you would prefer to sit next to the crapper in the very back of the 757-300 vs. a comfy (and empty) First Class seat - right?

The point is SIMPLE: if the seat is empty (meaning unsold), the employee should have the ability to sit in it. This has NOTHING to do with Delta vs. LCC. It is nice to know that IF you do take a trip to Europe on Delta, at least you might have access to a nice seat - don't expect the same treatment on ATA in the future (it is a nice perk for all airline employees)...

simple business economics my friend...make the customer happy and the customer will return. If there is an empty seat in business class sell it as an upgrade for a coach person (they'll bite, I've seen Delta do this), then upgrade a Paying coach passenger, one of your frequent fliers, who in turn will probably be happy and return as a customer. Or you can upgrade gate agent Laquita and her 2 loud mouth kids or Ramper Joe who's gonna biotch and complain about the company, thus pissing off your Paying business class passengers who are now unhappy and don't return. I would rather give up not sitting in business than having to take pay cuts, furloughs, and the like...

 

[TrimixDeepDiver]

Trimix,

Well, I said I went to Europe during the slower months----the other months you can hardly get a seat because they are all FULL. But we all know your planes are always full----just like the EWR to SFO flights (ooops---cnxed March 15th).

As far as pay cuts---even with a 30% pay cut I will probably make more than you---and our furloughs will be coming back soon--especially if our retirements continue the way they have. I continue to support the furloughs---contributing to the furlough funds and sponsoring a couple. They know I care.

You still haven't really addressed why ATA is doing that to their employees. It stinks. We allow non-revs after all of our frequent fliers are upgraded---and then go for employees as a perk. Not everyone makes it--but if there is room they are allowed to sit there. ATA's will be "a different kind of first class..." HMMMMM.
And oh yeah---all of our flights are empty......Hmmmm. Wrong. I even checked the Song flights this weekend--and almost all are full. Enjoy Kuwait. (You fly for a MAJOR LCC?---Ummm ok. Read these last couple posts--your argument $ucks)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Haha so funny general, so quick to fight back like a school yard bully...please reread my post, I don't work for ATA just commute on them weekly and talk to alot of the employees. I work at SWA and I'm very very happy here.I just think it's funny how you guys are so quick to pick on the guys that are doing good while Delta is in the Chitter, Just remember it's gonna get alot worse for you guys before it gets better...good luck you'll need it...

 

[General Lee]

Trimix,

Oh yeah, I guess you are a pilot for a MAJOR LCC? Ummmm ok. So, it 's gonna get a lot worse, huh? I think we are all resolved to getting pay cuts, and we all know that it is all our fault as pilots.
We also know that Chap 11 isn't as likely now (without another 9-11), and with all of our retirements (due to the low Gatt rate again and those possible pay cuts)--I should be close to INTL 767FO ATL---flying full airplanes ) )---all over South America and Europe soon. Sure, it might be a little rough coming up here---and I think I am personally ready financially---but we are ready to get back in the game and compete---and even the analysts (like Sam Butrick and Moody's) think we will be fine. I am glad you believe everything management has to say. By the way--that Airline show is great--I bet you are proud. And, the thing I don't like about ATA is their policy about not letting employees ride up front---I think adding First Class is great for their business---but the policy stinks for employees. You thought I didn't like the fact that ATA was getting a first class? Re-read my first post. And, it sounds like I am fighting for their employees---a noble cause, eh? But you don't think they should sit up front...? Right? Do those employees know that when you ride on their planes? Don't tell them---don't do it...... Enjoy Islip.

Bye Bye--General Lee


PS--A school yard bully? You are wrong---I was mad at the policy to not treat their employees with a perk regardless of the number of open first class seats--something that you guys at Southwest don't have to offer anyway. I don't remember my last Southwest jumpseater complaining when he sat in one of our first class seats from ATL--BWI last week. (only a couple empty seats on that flight--thank you) Whatever....

 

[UM#1]

Thanks for caring

you 2 guys don't even work for ATA but get all worked up over this issue...thanks for caring

 

[General Lee]

I think we all deserve perks---and you guys deserve to sit up front after all of the businessmen etc.. take the other seats etc. As far as letting other passengers up front for free---well that is great---but that doesn't mean they will buy another first class seat next time. I just think you guys deserve the chance at a better seat when non-reving. If you jump on us and there is an open seat after all of the upgrades, you will get it. (Southwest or ATA---or anyone who jumps on us)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

No even George can't sit in First Class. But guess what...he rides in the corporate jet!

But I don't give a hoot what type of marketing strategy they use to sell those seats. That's managements job...the VISION thing. Face it, some employees are obnoxious and pax don't like it. The pilots are used to sitting behind a closed door where no one can see them. We develop some poor social habits.

 

[flyndesk]

Hey General and Heavy

Yeah, of course everyone wants perks. But I would rather give a paying customer a shot at first class, and come back again (and maybe BUY the seat next time) than sit up there. If I am non-revving on my own time, a seat by the crapper is ok with me- better than putting a PAYING customer there, I suppose.

Look at the other side. A guy pays a couple of hundred dollars for his seat. And then sees an employee riding for free gets all the good stuff up front? That would make me kind of resentful, and feel like the airline didn't care about the customer.

I guess it was the way it all came out, and the wording, that kind of rubbed some of us the wrong way. But overall, I think most of us aren't too worked up about which side of the "curtain" we will get to sit on.

My only concern is the time it may take the gate agents to maneuver people around to get everyone on at the last minute. But I am sure we will work it out, and pilots will wait for the non-rev folks trying to get on.

Heavy, sometimes you mention you want to work for ATA, then you go right around and slam it all the time- and this time our CEO, too. George probably would sit by the crapper, as you put it- afterall, he used to drive our tour bus. After he flew the plane.

(Our senior execs ride on the planes each month. They sit and talk to customers during the flight. And I am sure they will do this from COACH.)

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Hey, don't give away all our secret info on customer preferences!! Let them all think we are making a mistake