Astar Pilots vs. The Dazz

[fraitguy]

How can this be?

John Dasberg negotiates a ten year ACMI with DHL Where he gets paid
ten M/yr. buys a ten million dollar house in Florida in addition to his ten million dollar lake home in Minneapolis and then unilaterally forces Astar pilots to pay for all of this via ten percent in pay concessions. He probably wipes his azz with ten dollar bills. This guy really is laughing all the way to the bank. I hope when that fateful day in March (release from mediation) arrives Astar pilots won't balk and allow their dignity to be further trampled by The Dazz.

 

[LarryinTN]

How are you predicting a release from mediation in March? I've never known a mediator to announce a release date months in advance.

 

[two(2)%]

Because Astar Mgmt refuses to negotiate with the Astar Pilots, they've tacitly indicated their intention to procede with the mediation process. I'll assume the next step in NMB process is proffer of arbitration which, I believe, Astar mgmt will decline (didn't Dasberg indicate as much in a recent letter). Following this step, NMB releases parties from mediation (30 day cooling off-period). Next is "super mediation" one or two more meetings (which Astar mgmt will encumber). Finally comes self help. Once again, didn't Dasberg himself indicate in a letter (sometime in Nov.) his intent to pursue this course of action? The other question is why is he doing this?

 

[LarryinTN]

From where are you getting March?

Mediators don't usually work on a predetermined schedule like that.

 

[Bitter]

What would the Dazz gain by locking out the Astar pilot group?

Would that not be bad for everyone......DHL included?

 

[penguin22]

...forces Astar pilots to pay for all of this via ten percent in pay concessions...

I've only got one thing to say here...

NO CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS!!

 

[gearjockey]

From where are you getting March?

Mediators don't usually work on a predetermined schedule like that.

Then how do they usually work, smart guy?

 

[gearjockey]

Is it true that the POS Dasberg gets his 10 mil or whatever if and only if Astar pilots strike during self-help or if Astar mgmt locks Astar pilots out?

 

[LarryinTN]

Then how do they usually work, smart guy?

The mediator doesn't usually release the parties until he's given up on any further progress being made at the negotiating table. That can't be predicted months in advance.

 

[erichartmann]

Then how do they usually work, smart guy?

The mediator does not have the authority to release the parties. Only the three appointed members of the National Mediation Board have that power. The mediator briefs the Board and makes his recommendation(s).

It is important to remember that NMB's "charter" is to "help" the parties reach agreement. They don't really care if the contract (agreement) is good or bad for either party. They use the threat of release, or putting the parties on the "shelf" as a tool to further negotiations. A mediator may tell the parties that he/she will recommend release to the Board at a particular time if he/she thinks that will have a desired result; in this case to compell one or both parties to reasses their positions. Of course, this is based on the mediator's assesment of the parties motives. Both sides may be indicating to the mediator they want a strike, the union to show management their resolve, and mangement to show it's resolve. The mediator would now be calling the bluff(s). If the parties are not bluffing a strike will occur. If one or both parties actually want a strike then one is inevitable; merely a matter of time.

Generally, if the parties are still at loggerheads after a lengthy period of mediated negotiations, the Board will either appoint a senior mediator and/or one or more members of the Board will get directly involved. This is sometimes referred to as "super mediation". If this does not produce agreement the Board will proffer arbitration, which either or both parties may reject. If arbitration is rejected the board will generally release the parties to a thirty day cooling off period, during which the parties will be encouraged to meet directly. During the thirty day cooling off period the Board will also generally call the parties back to the table, usually sometime toward the end of the period, to see if some form of agreement can be hammered out. This is also referred to as "super mediation". When the thirty day period expires the parties are entitled to exercise what is eupahmistically referred to a "self help". The company may impose it's last offer as the new contract, and the union may engage in a work stoppage which can take the form of a full blown strike, or what is sometimes referred to as chaos or a partial random disruption of the company's scheduled operations. The company at that point can lock the union out, and cease operation.

Based on the secondhand info I have (I haven't seen any of Dasburg's letters or heard him speak) it would appear he is intent on arriving at release. This could be because it will enable him to impose his last offer, or because he wants a strike or the ability to lock the union out. I have no information other than speculation as to why he may want the latter.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

What would the Dazz gain by locking out the Astar pilot group? Would that not be bad for everyone......DHL included?

At first glance, one might think so. But I can't help but wonder if DHL Int'l isn't pulling some strings from the sidelines in this matter?

Dumping Astar lock, stock and barrel would certainly send the message out to any present and future subcontractors that insurrection or any expectation of "industry standard" wages will not be tolerated by the parent corporation. By "subcontractors" I'm also referring to the many thousands of delivery drivers who are presently working for less than half of what their counterparts at UPS/FedEx are making, and who are in the beginning stages of attempting to change that. It would certainly change the tenor of the upcoming ABX negotiations.

It's possible they (DHL) are trying to provoke a strike, so that they can claim default by Astar on the contract. That would, in effect, force the dissolution of Astar. DHL then writes a Dasburg and his investors a check for their "damages," The Daz retires early, and the others move on to other opportunities. Meanwhile, DHL enjoys labor rates for years to come that are half of what their competitors are paying.

Some companies use pay, benefits, and stability to motivate their employees. Others use quality-of-life and growth. DHL (and of late, Astar) use terror, stagnation, and uncertainty. It's a mentality that's worked well in motivating their pilot group, as evidenced by their on-time performance.

At some point, even the dumbest of donkeys finally says, "Either I get a bite of that carrot, or this cart don't go." Any comments on the rumor that there's a LOT of intestinal flu going around the hub these days?

 

[gearjockey]

Of course, this is based on the mediator's assesment of the parties motives. Both sides may be indicating to the mediator they want a strike, the union to show management their resolve, and mangement to show it's resolve. The mediator would now be calling the bluff(s). If the parties are not bluffing a strike will occur. If one or both parties actually want a strike then one is inevitable; merely a matter of time.
.

Now this is the kind of detailed analysis everyone needs to read. You must have been involved with negotiations sometime during your career. I'm curious about the above statement specifically regarding assessment of parties' motives. Is the mediation board privy to the Dassberg letter indicating his intention to procede to endgame? If so, how would that influence their strategy concerning negotiations?

 

[AV8OR]

"Any comments on the rumor that there's a LOT of intestinal flu going around the hub these days?"

True. Couple of probable causes....A. It's flu season. B. Frank, our illustrious cafeteria cook was throwing up sick and serving up food in the same night. Nice. No job action here.

 

[AV8OR]

Now this is the kind of detailed analysis everyone needs to read. You must have been involved with negotiations sometime during your career. I'm curious about the above statement specifically regarding assessment of parties' motives. Is the mediation board privy to the Dassberg letter indicating his intention to procede to endgame? If so, how would that influence their strategy concerning negotiations?

The mediator will be made privy to said letter at the next meeting on the 8th.

 

[Meat n the Seat]

At first glance, one might think so. But I can't help but wonder if DHL Int'l isn't pulling some strings from the sidelines in this matter?

It's possible they (DHL) are trying to provoke a strike, so that they can claim default by Astar on the contract. That would, in effect, force the dissolution of Astar. DHL then writes a Dasburg and his investors a check for their "damages," The Daz retires early, and the others move on to other opportunities. Meanwhile, DHL enjoys labor rates for years to come that are half of what their competitors are paying.

What do you envision Dan? Maybe ASTAR gone and the immediate creation of a low cost replacement airline run by DHL under the cloak of Dasburgs imaginary ownership? Similar to what is happening now with ASTAR only at reduced rates? Or just making ASTAR go away with no replacement? Wouldn't the latter senario leave ABX free to break it off in DHL? Or do you think the dissolution of ASTAR would scare the ABX pilots into compliance?