Astar buying Polar

[aviatrix767]

First things first....Aviatrix, before you ask, I have know idea what the h3ll happened to the Tigers last Sat. Thankfully, at halftime, I headed over to NAS Pensacola to watch The Blue's homecoming show. I needed to watch some winners. BUT.......,

Speaking of winning, keep an eye on the front page of the ILN paper tomorrow and you'll see that after hearing all the evidence (or lack there of) the same judge vacated his own TRO, and promptly ordered AStar to pay all court and attorney's fees for wasting his and the court's time.

CCCCCCCCan I get a witness?!

gearjockey - If any AStar guys are twitchy....it's management.

Okay, so it was one game... you guys still have a great record this season. I mean, you've only lost 2 games and, depending on which poll you look at, you're ranked 14th/15th in the national rankings!! However, I've given up on the Rebels this season. The only way it could get any worse is if the Rebels were to lose to the Bulldogs. If THAT happens, well, I'm just going to lower my head in complete shame and hide under the nearest rock. LOL!

I heard about the TRO being thrown out a few minutes ago. Congrats! <sigh> These games get really old, really quick don't they?

 

[AV8OR]

Yes the games get old. But, unfortunately our management seems to enjoy it, and, since we don't have as choice, we say......bring it!

 

[GoABX]

Nice ad in the ILN Journal....a pic of a DHL aircraft, instead of the Soviet plane would have had more impact on they people who have the authority to say 'get it done now.' But I'm sure mgt had to unscrew themselves from the ceiling when they saw it. Those tactics are much more effective than taxiiing slow, etc.

Was the guy who got zapped on the checkride weak or a hostage. If weak, it puts the pilots in a tough position. If a hostage, it was a stupid blunder by the company; nothing unifies more quickly.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Was the guy who got zapped on the checkride weak or a hostage. If weak, it puts the pilots in a tough position. If a hostage, it was a stupid blunder by the company; nothing unifies more quickly.

It was a guy returning from a medical LOA. Passed his sim check and LOFT, failed 2 line checks, both administered by the same check pilot. (!)

20+ years with the company, 13 in left seat. No previous training failures, re-checks, or unsat line checks.

 

[GoABX]

Same check pilot?!!! That should never have happened. If the co. or union didn't have a clue, then the pilot himself should have declined and requested someone else. If he had to do both the sim and LOFT he was obviously out for a while, executing him without any additional training was pretty heartless on the company's part. I guess things will become more interesting in the short term. From the outside, it looks like you unity is pretty strong.

 

[AV8OR]

1. Yes he got fired. I have no idea where the union stands. But I have yet to hear a pilot who was annoyed at the news, much less willing to wildcat because of it.

2. That guy wasn't mentioned in the deposition to get the TRO at all.

3. The TRO was issued at the 11th hour in response to a deposition of our Dir. Flt Ops, who listed 4th hand innuendo as his basis for requesting the TRO.

4. That's what pissed off the judge.

I've read the entire deposition, and let's just say it's a very interesting chain of info that has been denied by some of the parties involved. I'm hoping there's an inestigation as to where this whole thing was actually instigated.

Either way, we won this one, they lost, and we move on.

 

[UM#1]

Either way, we won this one, they lost, and we move on.

SO True! The only thing they accomplished was building more Unity among our pilot group!

 

[LarryinTN]

3. The TRO was issued at the 11th hour in response to a deposition of our Dir. Flt Ops, who listed 4th hand innuendo as his basis for requesting the TRO.

Our local sent out some info to us on this today. Very strange situation.

 

[AV8OR]

Our local sent out some info to us on this today. Very strange situation.

Yes it is. But I'm hoping we'll get to the bottom of it.

 

[two(2)%]

Is perjury grounds for termination?

How about fraud, conspiracy or a combination thereof?

 

[GoABX]

Yes if you are the employee, No if you are the boss.

 

[goastar]

Yes if you are the employee, No if you are the boss.

Or a Eastern Scab.:smash:

 

[erichartmann]

Yes it is. But I'm hoping we'll get to the bottom of it.

There was some discussion on the subject of a possible Astar job action in the crew lounge area of the ops building at ABX before the TRO was obtained. It was based on the current rumors, including one which had Astar's ALPA MEC asking for, or planning to ask for support from IBT Local 1224. It was centered around what might happen if Astar's pilots were released by the NMB. It is possible someone from management overheard this discussion of rumors, as no particular effort was made to be secretive. It was, after all, rumor and speculation, gossip if you will.

I think we all know how rumors work. A WAG, based on speculation about incomplete information gets interpreted and reinterpreted as it moves from person to person. This is a classic example of how a rumor based on a WAG get blown into a "fact" which has no basis in truth. It's a real shame it led to a court action.

Can you say "twitchy".

 

[AV8OR]

Yep it's a shame alright....for whomever might get their a$$ sued for falsely accusing ALPA of a pending illegal job action. We are playing 100% by the book on this and I don't mind telling you I hope someone's gonna pay for this.

By the way, yall find it as disconserting as I do that your DO and our DO are flying chums who go way back and feed each other intel?

 

[erichartmann]

Yep it's a shame alright....for whomever might get their a$$ sued for falsely accusing ALPA of a pending illegal job action. We are playing 100% by the book on this and I don't mind telling you I hope someone's gonna pay for this.

By the way, yall find it as disconserting as I do that your DO and our DO are flying chums who go way back and feed each other intel?

No. No more so than our respective union leaders talking to one another.

I do find it disturbing that our DO would pass along to your DO rumor and innuendo and that your DO would treat it as the gospel and use it to get a TRO. I understand our management thinks we're stupid, but it continues to amaze me that they think we're as stupid as they seem to think. Of all the things they do I think this offends me the most.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

1. Yes he got fired. I have no idea where the union stands. But I have yet to hear a pilot who was annoyed at the news, much less willing to wildcat because of it.

If you're serious about not knowing where your union stands on this, then you either need to; A) get some new leadership into your union, or B) make an effort to find out where they stand. If they're not behind the guy 110%, see answer choice (A).

I'm not aware of any union that's ever wildcatted over a single termination. The practice of "taking hostages" when a labor dispute looms is pretty common, and as old as the labor movement itself. The company may be trying to get some idea of how unified your pilot group really is. If so, they got their answer when you all showed up for this rally. To get almost a third of your pilot group to show up was a remarkable achievement, especially considering how many pilots had to come in from out of town on their day off.

As for the guy that got fired, my guess is that they got him because he's senior, and fairly high-profile. They're making a statement..."Nobody is immune from our wrath! Fuss with us in any way while this is going on and you'll be gone, too!" The thing is, he may be your strongest asset at this stage of the negotiations. If the company senses that you'll go to the mat for ANY pilot that's taken hostage, they'll tend not to use that as a negotiating tactic. Take heart...you might have been the next on their list.

Lastly, if you or any other pilot has a problem with the pilot in question, take it up with Pro-Stan. Better yet take it up with him. But DON'T give the company any reason to believe that it's OK to fuss with some of your people, or you'll find that eventually, they'll be fussing with you all.

 

[rotor&wing]

If you're serious about not knowing where your union stands on this, then you either need to; A) get some new leadership into your union, or B) make an effort to find out where they stand. If they're not behind the guy 110%, see answer choice (A).

I'm not aware of any union that's ever wildcatted over a single termination. The practice of "taking hostages" when a labor dispute looms is pretty common, and as old as the labor movement itself. The company may be trying to get some idea of how unified your pilot group really is. If so, they got their answer when you all showed up for this rally. To get almost a third of your pilot group to show up was a remarkable achievement, especially considering how many pilots had to come in from out of town on their day off.

As for the guy that got fired, my guess is that they got him because he's senior, and fairly high-profile. They're making a statement..."Nobody is immune from our wrath! Fuss with us in any way while this is going on and you'll be gone, too!" The thing is, he may be your strongest asset at this stage of the negotiations. If the company senses that you'll go to the mat for ANY pilot that's taken hostage, they'll tend not to use that as a negotiating tactic. Take heart...you might have been the next on their list.

Lastly, if you or any other pilot has a problem with the pilot in question, take it up with Pro-Stan. Better yet take it up with him. But DON'T give the company any reason to believe that it's OK to fuss with some of your people, or you'll find that eventually, they'll be fussing with you all.

if memory serves me correct, this was the third time this pilot has been fired. on a previous firing, he was brought back at a great expense to the rest of the pilot group.....remember that dan?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

if memory serves me correct, this was the third time this pilot has been fired. on a previous firing, he was brought back at a great expense to the rest of the pilot group.....remember that dan?

I've heard 3 times also, but the next time the story is told, I'm sure it'll be 4. Stories have a way of propogating like that. Remember the Tales of Brer' Rabbit?

The correct answer, BTW, is once previous - which the company lost in arbitration.

I'm curious...how does defending one persons job incur "great expense" upon the rest of the pilot group? That's what your dues are for. Have you considered the expense to the group of NOT protecting jobs? That's a vitally important role for any union, but extremely so for one like yours, where there's a "no furlough" clause in effect.

You can negotiate "industry-leading" pay scales 'till the cows come home, but without protecting Scope and agressively addressing job-protection, any contract you secure is meaningless.

 

[AV8OR]

If you're serious about not knowing where your union stands on this, then you either need to; A) get some new leadership into your union, or B) make an effort to find out where they stand. If they're not behind the guy 110%, see answer choice (A).

I'm not aware of any union that's ever wildcatted over a single termination. The practice of "taking hostages" when a labor dispute looms is pretty common, and as old as the labor movement itself. The company may be trying to get some idea of how unified your pilot group really is. If so, they got their answer when you all showed up for this rally. To get almost a third of your pilot group to show up was a remarkable achievement, especially considering how many pilots had to come in from out of town on their day off.

As for the guy that got fired, my guess is that they got him because he's senior, and fairly high-profile. They're making a statement..."Nobody is immune from our wrath! Fuss with us in any way while this is going on and you'll be gone, too!" The thing is, he may be your strongest asset at this stage of the negotiations. If the company senses that you'll go to the mat for ANY pilot that's taken hostage, they'll tend not to use that as a negotiating tactic. Take heart...you might have been the next on their list.

Lastly, if you or any other pilot has a problem with the pilot in question, take it up with Pro-Stan. Better yet take it up with him. But DON'T give the company any reason to believe that it's OK to fuss with some of your people, or you'll find that eventually, they'll be fussing with you all.

Thanks for the admonition Dan, but, since you don't know who it is, and I do, you might want to get a little intel before you assume some things.

1. I am very familiar with what's going on regarding said pilot's termination and he will get just representation, but WE will not be held hostage due to this guys actions. Let's just say being a team player goes both ways.

2. The point I was trying to make was that this guy's "situation" was not and is not going to affect our negotiations.

3. Believe me, pro-stans has intimate knowledge of this guy.

 

[rotor&wing]

If you're serious about not knowing where your union stands on this, then you either need to; A) get some new leadership into your union, or B) make an effort to find out where they stand. If they're not behind the guy 110%, see answer choice (A).

Dan, we are 100% behind our union and our MEC, which I may add is the best MEC we have had to date. Much better than one of our previous MEC chairman who served in the late '90's and insisted on being a "full time" MEC chairman and drew premium pay while the line pilots got dropped to min guarantee. That same MEC chairman never even bothered to look inside of one of our cockpits for 8 years, and even the secretary at the MEC office use to laugh about ever seeing him. He just sat at home and took credit for other people's hard work.

Our MEC are all line pilots, and they fully understand what our life is all about. And unlike this previous MEC chairman I speak of, they don't have ambitions to jump over to management at the first opportunity (nor would they lie on their resumes to get one of those jobs).

We are 100% united and back our union and MEC.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Dan, we are 100% behind our union and our MEC, which I may add is the best MEC we have had to date. Much better than one of our previous MEC chairman who served in the late '90's and insisted on being a "full time" MEC chairman and drew premium pay while the line pilots got dropped to min guarantee. That same MEC chairman never even bothered to look inside of one of our cockpits for 8 years, and even the secretary at the MEC office use to laugh about ever seeing him. He just sat at home and took credit for other people's hard work.

Our MEC are all line pilots, and they fully understand what our life is all about. And unlike this previous MEC chairman I speak of, they don't have ambitions to jump over to management at the first opportunity (nor would they lie on their resumes to get one of those jobs).

We are 100% united and back our union and MEC.

I have some familiarity with your present leadership, and I agree, it probably IS the right group to have in there under the present circumstances. That's why I was somewhat taken aback when a previous post indicated that the union might not be doing everything they could to have those pilots (there are actually several) re-instated. You've got some street fighters in there now, and that's a good thing. You're gonna need 'em.

As for the the MEC chairman of which you speak, I guess it's safe to assume that he won't be getting a Christmas card from you this year? Just try to remember, however, that it was under his leadership and guidance that the pilots of DHL/Astar secured what was, at the time, an industry-leading contract. A contract WITH furlough protections, I might add. All that was done without pickets, job-actions, or the taking of hostages. I don't know how much he flew the line during the time he was in office, or what kind of office hours he kept while in town. What I do know is that he gave the pilots of DHL a lot of credibility and presence at ALPA headquarters, which is, after all, a large part of being an MEC Chairman. It was under his watch that DHL actually became, for a short while, a pretty good place to work.

I'm going to refrain from commenting any further on this forum about specific individuals. Let's face it, it's pretty easy to ascertain who they are. It's not so easy to ascertain who you are, or the veracity of the things that are either said or inferred about them. For the purposes of this discussion, let's maintain our focus on the issues, not on the people.

As fellow aviation professionals, I would hope you will respond likewise.