Astar/ABX -- Teamster or ALPA?

[aviatrix767]

 FedEX HKG LOA is out, and boy is it funny... I can not BELIEVE that this was voted in favor of 11-1 by our Union. Between this and DW's stand on the retro age 60 fiasco, I don't wear an ALPA pin or Lanyard anymore.

For MEM, ANC, and LAX guys who don't want to take the time to read the whole thing (and/or who aren't lawyers) before voting, here is a summary:


1--Housing allowance of $2700/mo (LOA B.2.d.i) if you rent. You'll get $1300/mo (LOA B.2.d.ii) if you buy. You have to live within 100 miles (LOA B.2.d.iii) of HKG (assuming HKG is the "base airport") Please remember that a "normal" apartment big enough to house you, your wife, and one kid is roughly 8500++ USD per month in any desirable area of HKG, and that you are RENTING, and not building equity in anything.

2--Remember the two hour limit on ground transport? That's gone. Get ready for a midnight van ride to Guangzhou for a 3 am show (LOA sect. G).

3--Want to go back to visit the folks stateside? You'll be able to do just that (along with your family) on an annual basis. . . in coach class. . . after having been in your new base for two years (LOA B.2.f). Perhaps after that amount of time you will have forgotten about Grandma. Out of sight out of mind?

4--Relocation allowance of $10K or 79 credit hours (contract 6.C.2) is now just $10,000 (LOA B.2.a) and you'll get an additional $5000. . . after 4 YEARS of staying in your new base. (LOA B.2.b)

5--Minimum commitment is 2 years (LOA B.2). Let's be conservative and assume you are single with no wife and kids, and can live in a very nice van down by the river in HKG for $6000/mo. You're paying $3,300 out of pocket (utilities aside) for rent (which we all know it lost money). . . $3300/mo for min commitment of 24 months equals your cost for living in HKG for two years-- $79,200!! Remember, that's for the van down by the river. . .

6--We're getting "tax equalization." In other words, you will pay the exact same taxes as if you lived in the USA. Isn't that the whole point of being an ex-pat, to avoid paying US Federal income tax (on the 1st 84K anyway) Take away that benefit, and still expect guys to live in THE most expensive, one of the MOST polluted (complete with air you can see), and crowded cities in the world?? I have never, ever, in the history of any US company basing employees overseas, heard of taking away the tax benefit Is FedEX honing its stand-up routine or what?

I hope FedEX is ready to fill the FO side of HKG with new hires. And I hope FedEX is ready to change its typical hiring practice. I'd love to listen in on the phone call from Kim to the typical, 38 year old, ex-military guy, with a wife and 3 kids... "Hello, congrats, you are hired at FedEX and we're ready to offer you a class date! You'll be going to Hong Kong, the most expensive city for ex-pat housing in the world. You can not afford to bring your wife, and we will not assist you in any way at all in schooling your children, because that only costs around $15,000 per year, EACH. And, we're going to pay you 52 bucks an hour! Welcome aboard!"

FedEX is going to need start hiring guys like the Commuter airlines do. 24 years old, no wife, no kids, little debt, still getting money from mom and dad, still suffering from Shiny Jet Syndrome, and willing to take ANY offer to get out of their CFI job.

This is what ALPA brings to the table. This piece of garbage ranks right up there with the 16 year deal that ALPA forced down the throats of the American Eagle pilots. Small group of pilots - - - you don't matter!

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

The goal will be to kick the support out from under ABXA's share price so that Daz's $7.75 looks to good to turn down. The key will be what DHL does. If they in turn announce they are considering not renewing ABX's ACMI...

Even that may be only a part of the story. Most hard-ball negotiations involve one or both parties walking away from the table at least once. True, DHL could be waffling on the ACMI contract to drive the stock price down, but where is it written that Astar would have to buy it? Couldn't DHL just as easily buy 49% of it, and continue to run the company independently from Astar ?

Perhaps DHL is saying to ABX that they're not going to renew the contract, unless they get exclusive use of the 767's.

Maybe this is being driven by DHL's need to re-fleet. The 767 conversion slots have some real value...is that what DHL really wants out if this?

It sounds as if DHL is putting a pincers move on ABX, and that by actively seeking flying outside the DHL network, Hete is saying to his BOD that he doesn't want any part of it. He's probably correct in his belief that the real growth in this business is in the Asian marketplace. Joe Hete and his 767's are no different from a guy with a back-hoe...on any given day, he's going to take it to the job that pays the best.

There are a number of principals and a LOT of variables at play in this, of which we know only a few. I wouldn't put anything past any of them.

 

[erichartmann]

Even that may be only a part of the story. Most hard-ball negotiations involve one or both parties walking away from the table at least once. True, DHL could be waffling on the ACMI contract to drive the stock price down, but where is it written that Astar would have to buy it? Couldn't DHL just as easily buy 49% of it, and continue to run the company independently from Astar ?

Perhaps DHL is saying to ABX that they're not going to renew the contract, unless they get exclusive use of the 767's.

Maybe this is being driven by DHL's need to re-fleet. The 767 conversion slots have some real value...is that what DHL really wants out if this?

It sounds as if DHL is putting a pincers move on ABX, and that by actively seeking flying outside the DHL network, Hete is saying to his BOD that he doesn't want any part of it. He's probably correct in his belief that the real growth in this business is in the Asian marketplace. Joe Hete and his 767's are no different from a guy with a back-hoe...on any given day, he's going to take it to the job that pays the best.

There are a number of principals and a LOT of variables at play in this, of which we know only a few. I wouldn't put anything past any of them.

Dan, you might want to re-read what I wrote. In-so-far as I know DHL/DPWN hasn't made any public announcement regarding ABX's ACMI with them. I was speculating as to what might occur.

Pure speculation on my part, but FWIW, IMHO, Joe has already told Daz to go take a long walk on a short pier. The board performing "due diligence" on Daz's offer is proforma while Joe and the ABX board make their own moves. The hiring of a COO is only the first. DHL will not get any of the 767F's not already on the ACMI at current ACMI rates. ABX may sub one of the ex Delta 767's for one of the ACMI 767's at and for it's own convienence, but that's about it.

 

[PCL_128]

This is what ALPA brings to the table.

You've gotta be kidding me! Of all the ALPA carriers, you're going to criticize FedEx ALPA? The FedEx pilots have the best contract in the industry right now! You'll ignore the industry leading contract that they just got, but complain about an LOA that they'll probably vote down. Ridiculous.

This piece of garbage ranks right up there with the 16 year deal that ALPA forced down the throats of the American Eagle pilots. Small group of pilots - - - you don't matter!

ALPA didn't "force" anything "down their throats." The 16 year contract is certainly not ideal, but it secured scope with AMR under a single list for the EGL pilots. Ask the ASA pilots how much they'd like to have scope over DAL regional flying right about now.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Dan, you might want to re-read what I wrote. In-so-far as I know DHL/DPWN hasn't made any public announcement regarding ABX's ACMI with them.

I was basing my statement on numerous references on this board (and others) to DHL's supposed dissatisfaction with Hete and ABX's performance.

Could be total BS for all I know. I thought ABX was doing a pretty good job. But you know how it is when you're asking the "boss" for a raise...all he wants to talk about are the things you're doing wrong.

Clearly, Hete doesn't want the fortunes of his company tied solely to those of DHL. That's really got to be pi$$ing the krauts off.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

A Eastern scab for a D/O and Evergreen maint noid for the Senior VP. You have a right to worry.

Yea, but at least those guys wear their colors up front. The scab never denied being a scab, and the "maint 'noid," well, you knew whose side he was going to be on, didn't you? The pilots didn't pick those guys to be their leaders, they were foisted upon them.

What bothers me are the company snitches and hitmen who populate the seniority list. ALPA 917 seems to tolerate those guys a lot better than other MEC's, and a he11 of a lot better than the IBT. Has a known, documented scab ever "bought" his way back into the IBT? Ours bought his way back into ALPA. All he had to do was write a check...a check he most likely expensed back to the company.

ALPA has done a great deal for the safety of air travel and the advancement of our profession, but in the end, it's still an Association. In an "association," loyalty to your fellow members is highly specious...it can be greater or less, depending upon what your particular needs or wishes are. Think, "Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association" or "National Bromeliad Association." They're great for organizing fly-in's to Baja, or "Raising the National awareness of bromeliads," but neither organization will put anything on the line to protect your right to pursue those interests.

The IBT, on the other hand, calls itself a "brotherhood." In a brotherhood, the bonds between individuals are much tighter, and are focused on the belief that the soul and strength of the organization lies in it's unity. A brotherhood polices it's own, but it protects it's own as well. In short, it's family. Think, "Band of Brothers" or "The Aryan Brotherhood." You only join a brotherhood once, and while you're in, you're expected to support your "brothers," even if it's not what you would choose to do on your own.

Pilots are notoriousy opinionated, individualistic, and hard to organize. The level of devotion that a true "brotherhood" entails is something that few ALPA members would be willing to support.

I belong to several "associations," including the one that represents airline pilots They're nice. I pay my "dues" and get their magazines. Sometimes, I take part in their activities. But when my a$$ is coming under fire, I want brothers on the firing line, not "associates."

 

[ABXbooger]

Great email from 1224 pres today. answers a lot of q's.

 

[LarryinTN]

Any preliminary info out on who got the 767 classes in the bid that closed today?

 

[GoABX]

Huge sucking sound

The Huge sucking sound you hear is all the pilots leaving Training and the Chief pilot's offices.

Hmmm, I guess people want to be active on the seniority list for integration and under union protection. So unless the company can get a radio controlled DC-9s passed by the FAA we will have to have a proffer soon. Too bad there is no one to train them. I guess the 'Everything will be okay' letter sent out to the management pilots didn't work.

 

[GoABX]

Huge sucking sound

The Huge sucking sound you hear is all the pilots leaving Training and the Chief pilot's offices.

Hmmm, I guess people want to be active on the seniority list for integration and under union protection. So unless the company can get a radio controlled DC-9s passed by the FAA we will have to have a proffer soon. Too bad there is no one to train them. I guess the 'Everything will be okay' letter sent out to the management pilots didn't work.

 

[ABXbooger]

For anyone who doesn't think this thing needs to happen, looks like Joes "niche" of midsize ACMI is evaporating...

11-Jul-2007 : PRECISION Conversions is to provide Cargo Aircraft Management, with its first full 15-pallet position 757-200PCF.

The B757-200 will commence modification on 20 September, 2007 at the Flightstar facility in Jacksonville, Florida and will be redelivered to CAM in December, 2007.

The Pratt & Whitney powered ex-Delta Air Lines aircraft (MSN 22910) was sold to CAM by First Greenwich Kahala, Ltd.

Brian McCarthy, Precision Conversions’ vice-president of marketing and sales, said: “We are very pleased to receive this award from CAM as it marks the start of our larger agreement to provide multiple 757-200PCF conversions to CAM over a five-year period.”

“The addition of the 757-200PCF to our fleet will allow for further expansion and support our growing freighter services offerings,” said Bill Tarpley, chief operating officer for Cargo Aircraft Management.

 

[xspud]

Did my homework and figured out that CAM is an aircraft leasing division owned by the same holding company as ATI and Capitol.

I know the ATI guys have had rumors of 767's coming on line for quite a while. I think, like ABX, they have conversion slots without airframes.

 

[xspud]

The Huge sucking sound you hear is all the pilots leaving Training and the Chief pilot's offices.

I'm pretty curious to see who took the latest proffer. I guess our one web guy must have the day off. Training pilots have taken previous slots and been talked out of it, but it's a new ballgame now.

 

[AV8OR]

Here ya go........

http://www.cargoleasing.com/index.html

 

[Jurassic Jet]

The Huge sucking sound you hear is all the pilots leaving Training and the Chief pilot's offices.

WOW....you ain't kiddin. I just got ahold of the list.

4 DC9 Standards
1 DC8 Standards
1 DC9 Chief

Plus losing 4 Line Check Airman off the 9.

Very wise on these guys part I guess if the company lets them go.

 

[LarryinTN]

4 DC9 Standards
1 DC8 Standards
1 DC9 Chief

Which ones?

What about the rest of the slots?

 

[Jurassic Jet]

Which ones?

What about the rest of the slots?

All 11 Capts are coming from the left seat of the 9. (Boy, peak seasons gonna be ugly in that seat.)

The 11 FO's break down as follows:

The 6 management pilots as listed earlier plus

2 DC8 FO's
3 DC9 FO's

I'll send a PM with the names.

 

[xspud]

I'll send a PM with the names.

JJ,

Could I get the PM, too?

Thanx

 

[Jurassic Jet]

JJ,

Could I get the PM, too?

Thanx

Done.

 

[inplaneview]

WOW....you ain't kiddin. I just got ahold of the list.

4 DC9 Standards
1 DC8 Standards
1 DC9 Chief

Plus losing 4 Line Check Airman off the 9.

Very wise on these guys part I guess if the company lets them go.

Correct me if I'm wrong...standards pilots and chief pilots are not protected under the collective bargaining agreement and therefore the company can tell them they're staying put if necessary. Losing 4 DC-9 standards pilots seems a little excessive, particularly if a DC-9 captain class needs to occur.

 

[LarryinTN]

That's a lot of DC9 Captains going to the 767!

They still have one 767 CA vacancy as one of the awards is a guy who was already in the August class moving up to the July class. Are they going to post a vacancy for one more 767 CA to fill the seat in the August class?

So, who's left in DC9 Standards? S.R., C.S. B.B. and C.P. all got 767 FO slots. T.P. and who else is left?

 

[Jurassic Jet]

That's a lot of DC9 Captains going to the 767!

They still have one 767 CA vacancy as one of the awards is a guy who was already in the August class moving up to the July class. Are they going to post a vacancy for one more 767 CA to fill the seat in the August class?

So, who's left in DC9 Standards? S.R., C.S. B.B. and C.P. all got 767 FO slots. T.P. and who else is left?

I think that just leaves. G.G., C.O, and "The Mountain"

 

[LarryinTN]

I wasn't counting G.G. as he's busy being "DC9 Customer Service". I forgot C.O. So that's C.O. and T.P. I guess they won't have to worry about staying busy for a while!

 

[GoABX]

I have heard rumors of 2 9c proffers coming soon. Actually, if they were smart instead of having two classes of 2 like they are probably thinking, they should have two classes of 10 or 12 and hope that not too many are awarded to 76FOs. Then depending on how it falls out, reduce the size as necessary if it impacts the 76F seat too much. But in the end does it really matter where you junior man? 9C or 6F.

Management has 2 problems. 1) Recognizing the problem too late and 2) taking too small of action to correct the problem. The pain is here,,,it hurts,,,a slow fix and a quick fix both hurt. So now at least take your medicine and get it over more quickly.

Forget that: Heads 2 classes of 2, Tails 4 classes of 1.

 

[shooter]

Hete can only blame those woes on himself. When Delta and Midwest received notice that they were being looked at for purchase, the FIRST THING both CEO's did was inform all employees and others listening they do NOT want to take the company in that direction. By keeping silent, Hete is telling everyone the while ABX was "not put up for sale", it is for sale at the right price. Even if Goldman Sacks comes back with a price that ASTAR/DHL would not pay, Hete's silent damage is done.

So ABX may be sold, maybe not. But in the end it was a VERY poor choice to create the uneasy/unsecure feeling most ABX employees are feeling as a result of the lack of communication. And he will end up paying for those choices if ABX is not sold.

 

[FreightBumper]

You and me both brother.

But I've got 11 years invested in this place and I ain't no spring chicken. So I'm riding this mule till the mule can't be ridden anymore. I'm sure you feel the same about your own situation.

Peeps, everyone,
However this plays out, there is NO reason Our Two Groups, You and I, everyone, can't make this work. Our Two Groups, You and I, should not be combatants. Every merger I ever read about always seems to be contentious and lopsided. Why is that? Who eventually benefits from a split and divided group? I'll let you all answer that for yourselves.
I know this sounds like a "why can't we all just get along" plea. Well maybe it is. But remember this; Our Two Groups, You and I should not be enemies. The enemies are the ones that sit in their crystal palaces and cabanas with Golden Parachutes strapped to their backs paid for by You, Me, Our Two Groups.

Now pardon me while I slip into my Nomex jammies for the flame fest.

I am an ABX pilot and wholeheartedly agree with you. You will have our support, and it will be given to fullest extent we are able, both physically and legally. I have carried dozens of Astar pilots on the jumpseat and not one ever asked if I would walk their line with them. I think your MEC leadership wanted it that way to fester hard feelings between us so he can push his agenda. I don't have a clue what that might be or why he feels that way. What a concept, just ask for our support out loud. Everyone wants tofeel wanted.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Stop the Madness! ! ! !

I am an ABX pilot and wholeheartedly agree with you. You will have our support, and it will be given to fullest extent we are able, both physically and legally. I have carried dozens of Astar pilots on the jumpseat and not one ever asked if I would walk their line with them. I think your MEC leadership wanted it that way to fester hard feelings between us so he can push his agenda. I don't have a clue what that might be or why he feels that way. What a concept, just ask for our support out loud. Everyone wants tofeel wanted.

Thanks FB,

I am comfortable with the knowledge that a great number of your group will do what they can as long as the result is not a night in a jail cell with Bubba. My beef is with the 1224 EB as yours is with 017 MEC. Funny. Is there a pattern here?
Maybe the tail should start wagging dog and 1200 pilots can start kicking some a$$ and taking some names. Now there's a concept.

FAJ

 

[rotor&wing]

I think your MEC leadership wanted it that way to fester hard feelings between us so he can push his agenda. I don't have a clue what that might be or why he feels that way.

I've known our MEC Chairman for 20+ years. He's a stand up guy who doesn't mince words, and he doesn't mind telling you his opinion and standing up for what he feels is the right thing. Our previous 2 MEC Chairman used the position to avoid line flying and stay home while collecting a premium paycheck. Earl remains as a line pilot, and working full time in the MEC. All this while facing what is going to be our ultimate challenge to hold the line.

Right now our management is attempting to use the same slanderous and outrageous diatribe to discredit Earl, just as you guys are attempting to do. They realize Earl will not be bullied or pushed around.

From what I've seen and heard from Ross, you guys need to be looking inside. You have far more problems facing you, and the wrong leader.

Just my opinion.

Oh, and have a nice day!

 

[abxaviator]

I have not criticized your MEC leadership, don't know a thing about the man. Just an observation, seems ironic for you to chastise others for being critical of Earl while in the same post, you criticize 1224 leadership.

 

[Clipperskip]

Leadership issues?

From what I've seen and heard from Ross, you guys need to be looking inside. You have far more problems facing you, and the wrong leader.

Just my opinion.

Oh, and have a nice day! [/quote]

I really don't know what you have "seen or heard" from Dave Ross but I am quite sure he is the right leader for the 1224 group. As far as knowing him, I have know him well for 15 1/2 years and I have found him to be a quality person with the talent to deal with rank and file pilots as well as ABX management. I am not passing judgement on your President because I do not know him but your locals' decision to show the Teamster's logo and the "once a Scab never a Teamster" at your informational picket was a poor choice. I consider myself a moderate but I was quite upset by that move at the same time you are asking for our support. Rest assured "Rotor" you and the rest of the Astar pilots have my support when you need it but please do not threaten me the or my group with "scab talk" or "kick sand in our faces". We really are in this together. Save your harsh words for your management team and the DHL group and I promise to do the same. That is where the criticism is deserved. Let's try and find a way through these petty disagreements and focus our attention where it is needed. Both pilot groups are in need of new labor contracts which address the issues we face as contractors to DHL. If we help each other the process will be much smoother. Imagine how much our management groups would hate that!