Associates Degree or A320 Type.

[chignutsak]

Oh really? Who else might fly the 320? Overseas operators maybe...

Ummmm, most of the world flies the A320. By far the most versatile type to get if you plan on heading overseas.

 

[thruthemurk]

Ummmm, most of the world flies the A320. By far the most versatile type to get if you plan on heading overseas.

The type is worthless even for overseas if you dont have any time operating the aircraft.

 

[Guam360]

train-ability

Train-ability for or against 4 yr degree/experience?

if it was the first question regarding 4 yr degree=train-abilty, what does 7 years in the US Navy as a Deep Sea Salvage Diver equate to, untrain-abilty because he has no college degree?

I call bull$hit.

just my opinion...2 cents whatever.

 

[Guam360]

The associates degree might be helpful if you are trying for that assistant manager position at Denny's. Otherwise, it's a cop-out cause you couldn't stick it our for a real degree.

If you're going to get a type, get a B737 type. As far as I know, there are no PFT airlines flying buses.

"Cop out"- that is pretty bold and arrogant

 

[Guam360]

Baseline education. A lot of pilots disagree with this- bc we dont use this logic, but take it as truth. It doesn't matter what pilots think about what it takes to get the job- it matters what the people who will hire you think. The executives-the owners- and ultimately, the customers. From personal experience, executives know pilots are the front line ambassadors and hate it when they run into ignorant pilots in their uniform. It says so many bad things about an airline- and everyone's got em. Executives and mgmt usually have MBAs or JDs and know how hard they worked to get them- they don't like pilots making the money we make without at least the 4-year, or representing their airline in an uneducated way. They want us to have the ability to not only know aviation inside and out- but be able to carry on a conversation on many levels. Right or wrong, good or bad- I know this from direct conversations at several companies.

Ability to learn in a classroom- ability to set goals and COMPLETE them. Mgmt hates wasting money on training pilots, and want as many levels of proof that you'll breeze through training as possible. So your logic is correct- you're just applying it to the wrong goal.

It's a no brainer- watch your money- no reason to overspend- but get a 4 year degree- OR- live with a very large roadblock to your career. Its possible without- but you wont get interviews half as fast and youll have to have a really good reason why you dont have a bachelor's when over 95% of your peers do.

The 320 type is just burning cash and time. Worse yet, it'll look like you're trying to buy your way in. The only type that's justified is the 737 bc of SWA. When recruiters look at type ratings and training classes passed- it's a very different thing to see that someone paid you to train up and then do a job for them while under the pressure of being on probation and can be fired if not up to par- that shows your very real value. Not only did you pass training, but you passed an interview process just to get the chance to go to training. Buying a type has a lot of ulterior motives ($) and really doesn't prove anything other than you paid someone to get you through and they did. See the difference?

Good luck and good on you for trying to differentiate yourself.

wow, are you serious about any of this, crawl out of your cave.
For one, candidates do fail their checkrides at Higher Power, places like that.

"Ignorant pilots in uniform", means what exactly? Uneducated?

"They want us to have the ability to not only know aviation inside and out- but be able to carry on a conversation on many levels."

Wow man, this stuff is really out there. Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, all buffoons I take it, right?

Yes, getting a bachelors degree is the right path, the right thing to do for this person with out a doubt, let the airline pay for your Type rating and ATP all at the same time, unless it is also required, but to belittle people because they do not have a college education, insane.

What if a pilot, male or female, is raising a child, making a living, earning very little, does that person have the financial ability to pay for college also, maybe not. Whatever job they may have.

yes, the degree is required, but after flying for 10-20 yrs, does getting a degree improve your decision making abilities as an aviator or make you more safe?

 

[gringo]

wow, are you serious about any of this, crawl out of your cave.
For one, candidates do fail their checkrides at Higher Power, places like that.

"Ignorant pilots in uniform", means what exactly? Uneducated?

"They want us to have the ability to not only know aviation inside and out- but be able to carry on a conversation on many levels."

Wow man, this stuff is really out there. Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, all buffoons I take it, right?

Yes, getting a bachelors degree is the right path, the right thing to do for this person with out a doubt, let the airline pay for your Type rating and ATP all at the same time, unless it is also required, but to belittle people because they do not have a college education, insane.

What if a pilot, male or female, is raising a child, making a living, earning very little, does that person have the financial ability to pay for college also, maybe not. Whatever job they may have.

yes, the degree is required, but after flying for 10-20 yrs, does getting a degree improve your decision making abilities as an aviator or make you more safe?

WTF are you people talking about??? Jesus Christ, you need the degree BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE DOING THE HIRING WANT YOU TO HAVE.

Period.

End of story.

You don't have a degree, then you're out of luck with FedEx, Delta, UCon and just about everywhere else, except Southwest.

Why do you people insist on making this more difficult than it needs to be?

You knew this before you got into the game, you knew this while you were playing the game, and now that the game is going into overtime you're complaining that you don't like the rules?

You have three choices- get out of the game, start your own damn airline and hire whomever you want, OR GET THE DEGREE.

it has NOTHING to do with your "trainability" or "improving your decision making skills" or any other bull******************** excuse you come up with for not getting the degree- without the degree you make the recruiters job easier- there's THOUSANDS of applicants with Navy, Air Farce, Marines, Army, Boy Scouts (redundant, I know- I already mentioned Air Farce) who HAVE the degree, who are just as qualified as you. Why on earth would they bother to look at you?

Quit bitching about how unfair life is because you chose not to peruse your degree. When I got out of the service, I had a choice- fly a 91 corporate gig offered to me or finish my degree. I chose to finish my degree. Many of my friends chose the other route. Now, I'm sitting just fine, wife & kids and the 2.5 dogs, waiting for the Majors to start hiring, while my friends are now struggling to get their degree so they can be considered.

Get your degree, stop making it out to be anything more than what it is (a check in a box) and stop making excuses for why you didn't have the time, energy, or whatever other excuse you can come up with.

If you want to fly for the majors, you need a 4 year degree. Period. Does not matter what it's in, JUST GET THE DAMN THING AND BE DONE WITH IT.

You mentioned Bill Gates, Michael Dell and others- what's your point??? Here's an experiment- try to get a management level job working for any of THOSE guys without a degree- see what happens. Guess what- without a MASTERS degree, you likely won't even be looked at, either!

Gates, Jobs, Dell, Zuckerberg etc etc- they're entrepreneurs. You're not. There's your difference. You're a mid-level employee, and mid-level employees need 4 year degrees, period.

And yes, the 2 year "associates degree" is TOTALLY WORTHLESS. Nobody cares. It's a community college degree, and it will get you absolutely nowhere, in this profession and just about every other one as well.

Rant over.

 

[SLUF4]

get the degree-the type is basically worthless if you haven't actually flown the airplane.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, there you go. Gringo said it pretty well-
Again, it doesn't matter what you and I think- how flawed we think mgmt logic is- I'm just telling you what their logic IS. Not how I wish it to be.

And Guam- this is no pissing contest- I have good friends who aren't as educated, and yes- they are excellent flyers, but don't hold as good of a conversation with our educated passengers as I would want if I owned or ran the airline. Pilots represent the airline- whether we like it or not- and we should.
It's an argument for our paycheck to be able to stand eye to eye with a doctor, lawyer, artist, or businessman and hold a competent, relevant conversation. We ought to be confidence inspiring on the job bc of who we are.

How we do that is up to us-
The degree and our grades are baselines, like gringo said- boxes to check, like flight time-
You can argue it- but who cares what you, or I think? It quickly becomes "why didn't you?" and when I know men and women, with kids on awful turboprop salaries and schedules who nutted up and willed themselves through when they had every excuse not to- pilots just don't have much of a leg to stand on- why give you a job, when everyone else made the sacrifice.
Same thing with the 1000TPIC
I have good friends who left to job C at 800TPIC, got furloughed and had to start all over again at the regionals bc they didn't have 200 more hours in the left seat- think another few months would make them appreciably better? No- but it is what it is.

You can either accept what is, and give companies no reason NOT to hire you, or get wrapped up in how you think it ought to be. Your choice.

 

[Guam360]

Well, there you go. Gringo said it pretty well-
Again, it doesn't matter what you and I think- how flawed we think mgmt logic is- I'm just telling you what their logic IS. Not how I wish it to be.

And Guam- this is no pissing contest- I have good friends who aren't as educated, and yes- they are excellent flyers, but don't hold as good of a conversation with our educated passengers as I would want if I owned or ran the airline. Pilots represent the airline- whether we like it or not- and we should.
It's an argument for our paycheck to be able to stand eye to eye with a doctor, lawyer, artist, or businessman and hold a competent, relevant conversation. We ought to be confidence inspiring on the job bc of who we are.

How we do that is up to us-
The degree and our grades are baselines, like gringo said- boxes to check, like flight time-
You can argue it- but who cares what you, or I think? It quickly becomes "why didn't you?" and when I know men and women, with kids on awful turboprop salaries and schedules who nutted up and willed themselves through when they had every excuse not to- pilots just don't have much of a leg to stand on- why give you a job, when everyone else made the sacrifice.
Same thing with the 1000TPIC
I have good friends who left to job C at 800TPIC, got furloughed and had to start all over again at the regionals bc they didn't have 200 more hours in the left seat- think another few months would make them appreciably better? No- but it is what it is.

You can either accept what is, and give companies no reason NOT to hire you, or get wrapped up in how you think it ought to be. Your choice.

you arrogant fu**, how could you disrespect your friends like that, you still think a college education only enables someone to have a conversation with an educated passenger, LOL, WOW.....
Books, literature and culture con easily influence a person to be eloquent enough for you.
I am happy where I am at, this is about the person who asked about a 320 type rating versus an AS degree, and how which would affect their career.

Again, what ever the company requires is what is needed, so do that.
It seems you are embarrassed by your peers that aren't as educated as you.

 

[waveflyer]

Wow, so personal.... You make a lot of assumptions.
but arrogant- I probably am- I am not perfect, but I am proud of all the work I do- especially the work I do on myself-

But notice, you critique my arrogance, but end up agreeing with me- sounds like I touched a nerve and you're just arguing with yourself-

So my advice is unchanged-

And embarrassed by a lack of a degree, no- if they made it through without- good on em-

Embarrassed by embarrassing pilots- not really, but we all represent each other when we put that uniform on. That's a good thing to remember, no?
Esp as we fight for contracts.
Are you saying you have no pilots at your airline that you wish would represent you better?

If we want to be paid as professionals, we ought to be that- and that includes having a solid education-