ASA's Cloudy Future

[General Lee]

You are a big loser.

Look in the mirror buddy. That is a big L you have on your forehead. Go smoke some more Ganja.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[goahead]

Look in the mirror buddy. That is a big L you have on your forehead. Go smoke some more Ganja.


Bye Bye--General Lee

WTF, are you in 1st grade........

 

[General Lee]

WTF, are you in 1st grade........

Hey, it was a great response to a Ganja smoking Loser. Are you in 1st grade?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[EV120]

General,
I don't want a cut of anything at ASA. And I am willing to strike for that as well. However you must remember, if we take any cuts to make our CASM yard sale cheaper, we and others like us become financially more attractive to your "Outsourcing"

 

[FL990]

Classic. Read your own post. IT will be a factor, chief. Start preparing. Scope is HUGE and we won't budge. We have atleast 51% that would vote NO on any increase in size of RJ for DCI. But, you know differently.......I am glad you do.



Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

I think it is unfortunate that we are all in this position. ASA is being backed into a corner just like Delta...although I willfully admit that you are in a much worse position than we are, seeing as how if mgmt gets what they want from you, it will be 45% cuts since 2002...terrible no doubt.

Mgmt is asking us for a cut too, not because skywest can't afford to pay us (over 80mil in profit for the 4th qtr 2005 alone), but because they don't have to as long as Skywest pilots will do it for less than us...lets face it, all other things being equal they are cheaper on the 70.

Getting back to what i was going to say....Do you really think that the bankruptcy courts will allow a strike? I mean, if it goes to that, the company is not going to take it to that point without knowing that it would be stopped. Furthermore, how many pilots, if the strike is haulted, would be willing to outright walk? I don't think that many considering all they would stand to lose. Just a thought, but i don't think that you guys have as much power as you think that you do, just like we don't have that much power either.

 

[FL990]

General,
I don't want a cut of anything at ASA. And I am willing to strike for that as well. However you must remember, if we take any cuts to make our CASM yard sale cheaper, we and others like us become financially more attractive to your "Outsourcing"

Do you think that mgmt is going to let it go to a strike here at ASA. NO WAY!! No, what will happen is actually quite simple. They will get out of us what they can on the 70...and if we don't come down in overall costs(which is not just solely relying on pilot costs but that is a huge part of it), they will take the 70's and put them where they are cheaper. Either way, they will give before a strike.

Our best bet is to shoot for an increase in 50 pay (which would give the majority of pilots a raise) along with trip rigs and profit sharing. This would benifit most of the pilots. If we take a small drop in 70 pay, we could offset it with profit sharing and rigs...in addition, work rules are a must.

THEN, we need to put HUGE HUGE efforts into improving good relations with the Skywest pilots to prevent this whipsaw in the future. If we can stick together, then we will get paid what we are worth, and not what they can squeeze out of us.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Mgmt is asking us for a cut too, not because skywest can't afford to pay us (over 80mil in profit for the 4th qtr 2005 alone), but because they don't have to as long as Skywest pilots will do it for less than us...lets face it, all other things being equal they are cheaper on the 70.

And you are cheaper on the 50....................It cuts both ways. Let's say it together......


WHIPSAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AF

 

[Willy21]

We don't need to take a small drop in 70 pay. When you take a small drop they come back for another. If the 70 rate at ASA is too big to get more growth then I guess Skywest can have them.

Also the 50 is on the way out. They want you to vote for a lower 70 seat rate so that when they get the OK to replace the 50's with 70's they get the lower rate. Don't think that if you are on the 50 at this time a decreae in the 70 rate won't hit you in the future.

 

[blueridge71]

Our best bet is to shoot for an increase in 50 pay (which would give the majority of pilots a raise) along with trip rigs and profit sharing. This would benifit most of the pilots. If we take a small drop in 70 pay, we could offset it with profit sharing and rigs...in addition, work rules are a must.

The problem with that idea is that the 50 is a dead airplane. They aren't making any more. Any growth worth speaking of will be in 70 seaters (or above). That is why they want to cut 70 seat rates.

And the reason that ASA's 70 seat costs are so high is that they figure in the cost of all the IPs since almost all IPs for the company are on the 70 seat pay rate. No wonder we look high if we factor in the cost of training the entire company! I got that from TZ.

 

[sweptback]

The 70 seat rate we have is either competitive or it is not. If it isn't, then why do we have 35 70s? Even before Delta was in BK, they still wanted the cheapest feed.

A small increase in pay means very little in the grand scheme of things. Our MX costs on the 700 are higher than SkyWest, yet you don't see the company asking our mechanics to take a pay cut. It's just a ploy to make us think we're overpaid and it's working on some of you.

If we get, say 17 more airplanes, what happens to our costs on the 700? I'd bet my next paycheck that they won't go up. I'm just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if the reason that SkyWest supposedly has lower 70-seat costs is because they have more airplanes than us (and therefore more new pilots)... things that make you go hmmmm...

 

[EV120]

Not only is it whipsaw within the same group, we would still be buying the growth. Pilots do not buy the airplanes for them with wages

Here is an idea...get out of the lease at the GO in ATL and lease some cheap storefront office space in College Park. That would bring down the overhead.

And while you are at it, get rid of ALL of the full time help. If every one is part time, they pay no O/T and no insurance.

Quit agreeing to Walmart the industry folks.

 

[FL990]

All i am saying is what good does a super 70 pay rate do us if there are no 70's to fly. I am NOT an advocate of what the company is doing. What most of you are saying is correct, but business is business. And from a business standpoint, if skywest is cheaper on the 70, they will get them.

Like i did say before, there is more that goes into the cost equation than just pilot costs...logistics will play a part in this as well. But if they are cheaper, they will get the aircraft. And those of you who say that the 50 is gone, NOT correct. We have lots of 50's. Yes , they aren't making any more, but that doesn't mean it will be gone in 4 or 5 years. I do understand that most of the growth is with the 70...and obviously this is why they are focusing on this in the pay scale...but we will most likely get some of the CAL flying..as will other carriers, and so there may be some growth on this plane.

I just don't think that it is a good idea to fight for something that if we get, will most likely go away anyway.

Keep in mind, we could still get an EFFECTIVE raise with profit sharing and duty rigs...BOTH ARE A MUST THOUGH...we have to have the duty rigs too. I am so tired of the inefficiencies of our schedule.

Then, once the contract is done, we must put all our efforts into building relations with each other (skywest and ASA)...stop the whipsaw and you will get what we are worth.

 

[FL990]

ALSO, I would like to add that I AM NOT suggesting that we undercut skywest...I am simply suggesting that if the costs are even, then the aircraft will be spread out evenly among the 2 companies...I believe that this is better for everyone as it will aid in building good relations among the two companies as apposed to creating competition and animosity between us.

 

[ArcticFlier]

SGU doesn't care about good relations anymore. What they care about is the bottom line. End of story.


AF

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Not only is it whipsaw within the same group, we would still be buying the growth. Pilots do not buy the airplanes for them with wages

Here is an idea...get out of the lease at the GO in ATL and lease some cheap storefront office space in College Park. That would bring down the overhead.

And while you are at it, get rid of ALL of the full time help. If every one is part time, they pay no O/T and no insurance.

Quit agreeing to Walmart the industry folks.

Agreed. Every time I choke down a Wendy's in 6 minutes, busting my azz to get the flight out on-time, I should think about the catered lunches, the marble floors, and the maple furniture at the G.O. that is inhabited by our managers for about 35 hrs/week.