ASA vs XJT?

[fly2eat]

Recently hired by ASA and COEX. I'm having a tough time making a decision of which company to choose and looking for some advice. I don't mean to start the "my company's better", but I would appreciate some insight from those of you in the know. Could you please respond with concrete points like upgrade/reserve times, quality of life, contracts, expansion, etc? Thanks in advance.

 

[RIOtoPilot]

Wow - I'm in the same boat! My commute from VA Beach will play a big part, however. I've had some good advice given by others on this website - hopefully, you'll get some, too. I don't have much to add except that both companies are currently in contract negotiations. I'm sure alot will be ironed out in the near future. Good luck and maybe I'll see you in class.

 

[captjim]

Whatever you do, don't listen to Cynic.

I think you can pretty much flip a coin and make a good decission. Did that help?

 

[sleepy]

I will hopefully be leaving ASA soon for greener pastures. I don't know where you live, but do you want to live in DFW or ATL? I say live there because you will be on reserve for a very long time at ASA, and commuting while on reserve here is not recommended (especially to DFW).

Growth at ASA, who really knows. They (management) probably told you about the 25 new RJ we are getting from the latest DCI RFP. I would not put too much stock in that. Those aircraft could end up anywhere.

Bankruptcy. It looks like DAL will be going that way soon (probably in late summer). What will that mean for ASA as a wholly owned sub of DAL? Who knows, it could be good (bigger aircraft and more growth) or bad (look at what J4J has done to the USAir WO's).

Upgrade time. Well I have been at ASA for almost 4 years and have no hope of upgrading in ATL anytime soon. It is a little better in DFW (maybe 4.5 years to upgrade).

QOL. At ASA it is pretty bad right now. Our management is doing all that they can to torment us. I don't see that getting better for at least 1.5 to 2 years (when we probably will have this contract settled).

We have some great crews at ASA, and I have enjoyed working with most of the people here. The training is pretty good (if a little rushed), the pay and benefits are not that great, but could get better.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

There you go with your negative talk again---bankruptcy at the end of the Summer? And you know this because????? We are full, fuel prices are falling, and you like to listen to managment's threats. COEX and ASA are having about the same luck with their contracts---they are both going nowhere. This is not a good time for anyone to be negotiating a contract---either Major or Regional. I would look to see which airline has a base closer to where you want to live. And Sleepy, good luck somewhere else---please leave soon.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[e120pilot]

Sleepy,

People like you are the reason morale could be better at ASA. I agree there are a lot of things that could be better here, but guys like you will never be happy. I'm so sick of hearing morons like you preaching your doom and gloom in the crew room. Upgrades are slow, growth is uncertain, pay sucks, and management is out to get us....you've pretty much described the regional airline industry right now. I'm glad you've found something else, because this clearly isn't the job for you.

fly2eat,

Like others have said, I'd make your decision on what base is best for you (either commuting or living in). The latest new hire classes have been getting ATL based pretty much right off the bat. Those going to DFW will be off reserve much quicker, but those trying for ATL at least have that option. We'll most likely be getting the 25 airplanes next year, but as with anything else, that could change. Good luck with your decision!

 

[RIOtoPilot]

Reserve times

CAn you guys put a number on the latest reserve times for junior bases at ASA and COEX? Thanks.

 

[rjcap]

Sleepy is accurate with his comments.

If you live in DFW or ATL then ASA will be a good fit. Upgrades are a long way aways.

Coex will probably resolve their contract before we do. ASA is a good year or so away.

And yes, the company has been screwing the pilots over basic contract issues.

On the upside, the pilot group is solid and I believe the training department is very good or better.



Good luck

 

[sleepy]

Fly2eat,

Some here have accused me of being too negative, well that is fine. I am trying to give you some realistic "non-koolaid drinking advice". I don't know anything about XJET, but I do have a pretty good idea of what is going on around ASA. Everything I wrote in the above post is true. I suggest that you contact someone from our MEC in ATL and find out about the record number of grievances we have had to file lately because the management "team" is attempting to violate or re-interpret our CBA. Then you can decide for yourself if you want to be on reserve for one or two years under that system.

ASA is not a bad place to work overall, but there are some down sides that you should know about. You should make sure you can stand our reserve system for a few years (I have only been on reserve a few times by choice, so I am not a great source for this kind of info). You should talk to some of our pilots who have been on reserve for a few years and see how they like it. You should make sure that you can live on $18K the first year. If you want to up-grade in the next 5 years, go somewhere else, it is not likely to happen at ASA. And the DAL bankruptcy (it will happen now whether the pilots give concessions or not) is a real factor that you should consider.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I would not advise anyone to consider ASA at the moment. ASA is just one operation in a alter ego ocean of Delta Connection carriers. ALPA National does not like us to the extent that we might get in the way of their favorite boys at Delta, Delta sees us as an effective tool ( but not really part of anything ), and ASA's management is still the hostile anti-pilot guys who ran the place under George and John.

All we have going for us is an ATL or DFW base if that is where you want to live.

If you work the numbers nearly 800 pilots would have to leave the airline for you to ever see the left seat and the Delta MEC has asked about staffing any left seat openings with DAL pilots ( which would stop any upgrading at ASA ). The only reason why this has not happened is the RJDC.

Continental is looking like the airline with a better future, but it is hard to have a crystal ball when it comes to aviation. From talking to my friends at COEX, they have a much better relationship with their management.

As for reserve, I have had my days off taken away from me and have been flying 6 on, 1 day off, for the past four weeks now. As much as I hate the idea of jets for jobs, it sure would be nice if one of those 200+ Delta pilots getting paid six figures to sit at home would come relieve me long enough so I did not have to buy clean undewear from Wal Mart on overnights....

Oh and in the Company magazine our Chief Pilot says we should raise expectations for flight crew members and he fondly remembers the days when we paid for the privlege fly. Asking the Company to pay us a living wage, or let us see our families more than 1 day a week, is too much to ask. You pick - you want to work for him? I'm not sure I do. I can't wait till we get to walk out of here.

~~~^~~~

 

[180ToTheMarker]

If you work the numbers nearly 800 pilots would have to leave the airline for you to ever see the left seat and the Delta MEC has asked about staffing any left seat openings with DAL pilots ( which would stop any upgrading at ASA ). The only reason why this has not happened is the RJDC.

WTF??? Where did you get this information? The only thing the RJDC has done in four years is whine and complain about the DAL PWA harming our careers and steal harned earned money from junior pilots who don't know any better. I am sick of this RJDC crap. 1000 DAL guys are on the street while we get airframes and hire pilots and all you do is bitch about it!!!

Fire away....

 

[~~~^~~~]

The only thing the RJDC has done in four years is whine and complain about the DAL PWA harming our careers and steal harned earned money from junior pilots who don't know any better. ...and all you do is bitch about it!!!

Fire away....

The RJDC has done much more than that. For starters they have organized and funded one of the largest Duty of Fair Representation suits in US history. They have got past ALPA's motions to dismiss and efforts to quash discovery and in case you have not noticed, ASA and Comair are the only wholly owned subisidiaries in this industry without some form of jets for jobs.

The Delta furloughs are an unnecessary byproduct of ALPA's failed scope policy. If Onelist had not been destroyed by the Delta MEC all of the Delta furloughees would be employed and Delta would not be hamstrung into operating less than an ideal fleet mix.

As an RJDC supporter, I'm proud of the efforts we have made to effect change in our union. What have you done?

 

[jrcpilot]

I will throw my 2 cents worth since I don't see any coex folks talking about coex for you. I am 2 months out of training. I used to work for Delta in ground training and struggled with the decision to go to ASA/Comair or go outside. I looked at many of the regionals and chose XJT. Training was very good, but the bases suck. I live in ATL and commute to EWR. However, XJT is recieving 2 jets per month until the end of the year and then 1 per month for the following 16 months. Continental is slowly recalling their pilots albeit they just had a class of 12 upgrades and no more scheduled. I am in my 1st month off of IOE and next month I will have weekends off on reserve with a good shot at holding a line in 3 months. Some very good friends at ASA like the flying there but are going to be on reserve for a long long time. A close friend has been there 2+ years and is still on reserve in ATL. There increasing lines in EWR at COEX and my commute is very good thanks to the many flights on DL, CO and FL between ATL and EWR. XJT has been hiring approximately 30-50 pilots a month. I started March 8th and have 157 pilots underneath me with 30 in EWR. Even with all the doom and gloom everyone talks about there are good things happening here and everyone here is very laid back for the most part and in EWR everyone seems to have a lot of fun at work so for what its worth that has been my experience at XJT. Good luck with what ever decision you make.

 

[Tooslow]

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[Smacktard]

From talking to my friends at COEX, they have a much better relationship with their management.

~~~^~~~

Your friend obviously doesn't know much, he's missing out on XJet's management breaking tactics (he's leaving the logo light on.) If you want to see the real side of XJet, take any one of their 400 hour wonders (those hired in 2000-2001) and have him give you a brief synopsis from 'a real pilot's point of view'. Take about one negative management-hating-sour-grapes-we-taxi-our-37-seaters-(actually-we-taxi-all-of-them)-like-we're-in-a-767 pilot group, they take the grand prize. Go there only if you want to hate your job for life. Good luck, it's a good position to be in.

As for the wide body taxiing, do you guys really think you need the clearance? I watched a 37 seater taxi ALL the way to the end of the taxiway (20 feet past the center line) before turning, ala 767 style. The guy behind him stayed on the little yellow line (you know, the one that marks the CENTER of the taxiway), his inside wheel was offset by TWO WHOLE FEET. You have the clearance, you don't need to taxi ALL the way down, you can stay on the yellow line with plenty of room to avoid the grass.

 

[US Flyer]

"Continental is looking like the airline with a better future, but it is hard to have a crystal ball when it comes to aviation. From talking to my friends at COEX, they have a much better relationship with their management.

As for reserve, I have had my days off taken away from me and have been flying 6 on, 1 day off, for the past four weeks now. As much as I hate the idea of jets for jobs, it sure would be nice if one of those 200+ Delta pilots getting paid six figures to sit at home would come relieve me long enough so I did not have to buy clean undewear from Wal Mart on overnights....

Oh and in the Company magazine our Chief Pilot says we should raise expectations for flight crew members and he fondly remembers the days when we paid for the privlege fly. Asking the Company to pay us a living wage, or let us see our families more than 1 day a week, is too much to ask. You pick - you want to work for him? I'm not sure I do. I can't wait till we get to walk out of here."................


I couldn't have said it better myself. I dont know much about COEX, but would go where I know I could get a better contract sooner and not be treated like a two-year old. ASA grievances are at all time high, and the company is fighting them tooth and nail, even the one's they know they are wrong on. In my opinion I think this increases pilot solidarity in the event of a work slowdown/strike. But I am not paid the big bucks like all the management people who think they are wearing us down. They are just encouraging us to fight them more and increase turnover. I know several guys from my new hire class that are trying to find any corporate job just to leave the place it has become so negative recently.

 

[Britpilot]

Your friend obviously doesn't know much, he's missing out on XJet's management breaking tactics (he's leaving the logo light on.) If you want to see the real side of XJet, take any one of their 400 hour wonders (those hired in 2000-2001) and have him give you a brief synopsis from 'a real pilot's point of view'. Take about one negative management-hating-sour-grapes-we-taxi-our-37-seaters-(actually-we-taxi-all-of-them)-like-we're-in-a-767 pilot group, they take the grand prize. Go there only if you want to hate your job for life. Good luck, it's a good position to be in.

As for the wide body taxiing, do you guys really think you need the clearance? I watched a 37 seater taxi ALL the way to the end of the taxiway (20 feet past the center line) before turning, ala 767 style. The guy behind him stayed on the little yellow line (you know, the one that marks the CENTER of the taxiway), his inside wheel was offset by TWO WHOLE FEET. You have the clearance, you don't need to taxi ALL the way down, you can stay on the yellow line with plenty of room to avoid the grass.

You sir, are a dick. The yellow line indicates how to EXIT the runway.

 

[Smacktard]

You sir, are a dick. The yellow line indicates how to EXIT the runway.

You might want to do a little research. Yellow line is simply a taxiway centerline. Centered for a reason. I know it's been a while since you were learning this stuff so here's a little help for you...

Taxiway Centerline. The taxiway centerline is a single continuous yellow line, 6 inches (15 cm) to 12 inches (30 cm) in width. This provides a visual cue to permit taxiing along a designated path. Ideally the aircraft should be kept centered over this line during taxi to ensure wing-tip clearance.

 

[Britpilot]

You might want to do a little research. Yellow line is simply a taxiway centerline. Centered for a reason. I know it's been a while since you were learning this stuff so here's a little help for you...

Taxiway Centerline. The taxiway centerline is a single continuous yellow line, 6 inches (15 cm) to 12 inches (30 cm) in width. This provides a visual cue to permit taxiing along a designated path. Ideally the aircraft should be kept centered over this line during taxi to ensure wing-tip clearance.

Thank you for the lesson but we are not talking about a taxiway line here. You may have not had a FAA inspector on the jump seat who will bust you if you stay on the yellow line when you taxi onto the runway. Reason? Not using all available runway for take off. Their interpretation of the yellow line at the end of the runway (remember we are talking about the line ON THE RUNWAY not the taxiway as in your quote) is for giudance when exiting the runway after landing. As I said, their interpretation, not mine.

 

[Smacktard]

Thank you for the lesson but we are not talking about a taxiway line here.

I guess you guys use all available taxiways too, ehh?

Ok, sorry I started this, it was an offhand remark poking fun at how XJet'ers taxi.

But since I can't let a good thing go, let me get one more word in.

Technically the orginal complaint was "The guy behind him stayed on the little yellow line (you know, the one that marks the CENTER of the taxiway)".

I was talking about the taxiway line. (He was taxiing from Lima to November, short of 6R, CLE.)

I guess I should have spelled that out in the original post. Sorry for the confusion.