ASA State of company

[btflyer2]

How about this, if they want to know what "our" (loosely said, I am a poolie) costs will be for the RFP, just match Comair's rates and/or contract, immediately. Get the negotiations over, then costs will no longer be the "big unknown"!!!!!

And for those who say the economy will be better in 2 years, can we get that in writing??

 

[asapilot]

btflyer-

Well, it sounds like a simple solution, but I think that's exactly what they're trying to avoid. They wanted Comair to get cheaper, so obviously they don't want us to get more expensive, hence the extension.

Also, what Comair gets is good, we know that we're quite likely to get better. It's not so much a matter of being greedy. With ACA going off to do their own thing, it's essentially just us and Comair keeping up the level we've worked for in the regional industry. While getting what Comair has would be a slight increase for us, I think we're all committed not so much to keeping the pay going up and up(though up a reasonable amount), but to improving work rules and securing a viable future for our group(and hopefully for you as well). We like to think of ourselves as industry leaders(and we are in lost bags and involuntary denied boardings) so we've got to move forward.

 

[sleepy]

Remember that with the rate of inflation (2 to 3% per year) a pay freeze is a pay loss. It is a concession.

 

[FL000]

Remember that with the rate of inflation (2 to 3% per year) a pay freeze is a pay loss. It is a concession.

Thanks Sleepy. I've been trying to hammer that point home. It doesn't matter if one perceives this as concessions or not. It IS a bid for growth.

Not a good path to choose.

 

[asapilot]

not exactly

Remember that with the rate of inflation (2 to 3% per year) a pay freeze is a pay loss. It is a concession.

While I don't want to argue whether this is a concession or not, we're not being asked to take a pay freeze. Our current contract remains in effect which pay increases based on longetivity just as it has been since we've been in negotiations. Also, it might interest you to note than our current longetivity pay increases yearly are about 2% until you get to around year 10 when it's about 3%. So, you're getting your inflationary raise as it is.

I'm not of the opinion that the proposal as it is is a good idea for us either, I just want to make sure we don't misunderstand what's being asked of us.

 

[FL000]

Re: not exactly

While I don't want to argue whether this is a concession or not, we're not being asked to take a pay freeze. Our current contract remains in effect which pay increases based on longetivity just as it has been since we've been in negotiations. Also, it might interest you to note than our current longetivity pay increases yearly are about 2% until you get to around year 10 when it's about 3%. So, you're getting your inflationary raise as it is.

I'm not of the opinion that the proposal as it is is a good idea for us either, I just want to make sure we don't misunderstand what's being asked of us.

All true, BUT we were getting YOS increases in addition to DOS+X raises before the amendable date. The DOS+X increases stopped 14 months ago.

 

[rjcap]

While I don't want to argue whether this is a concession or not,

asapilot,

I will argue that a delay in negotiating a new contract is a CONCESSIONARY mindset.

The bottom line is that ASA and Comair are VERY profitable operations. At the same time the ASA pilots are underpaid and deal with quality of life issues that are unjustifiably poor.

If you are not focused on QOL and compensatory improvements then you have accepted a concessionary negotiating stance and subsequently have adopted a concessionary mindset.

One question to all.

Does anybody really think that one day the company will come forward and declare tha the industry is in an upswing ???

 

[asapilot]

All true, BUT we were getting YOS increases in addition to DOS+X raises before the amendable date. The DOS+X increases stopped 14 months ago.

I will argue that a delay in negotiating a new contract is a CONCESSIONARY mindset.

No arguement here fellas. If you read what I said, you'll see my point was only that people shouldn't say things like "pay freeze" when it's not an accurate picture of what we're facing. Each of us that will ultimately vote on(if it comes to that) and live with it is obligated to be educated in our decision. I hope people do say no, I just want them to know exactly what they're saying no to.

If you are not focused on QOL and compensatory improvements then you have accepted a concessionary negotiating stance and subsequently have adopted a concessionary mindset.

I absolutely have those things in mind, I don't really know anyone who doesn't. I'm not overly concerned about our growth picture, I'm confident it will happen, though maybe not at the rate we'd all like it to. I don't know how my attempt at bringing some logic into this discussion makes me someone who's not focused and ready to accept concessions.

Does anybody really think that one day the company will come forward and declare tha the industry is in an upswing ???

Of course not. I think companies are going to ride the doom and gloom forecast for all it's worth. Obviously it behooves us to try and use economic upswings to our favor in negotiations, but those people who are saying "in two years we'll get a better contract than we will now" are a lot more optimistic than they should be.

Finally, the reason I took the time to correct the misconception about the "pay freeze" is because this is likely the biggest decision a large majority of our pilot group has faced here at ASA. The majority of our pilot group was not here for the last contract talks and this will dictate a lot of our future moves. I've spoken to a large number of people about this and frankly I was surprised at how many had virtually no real information about it. The words "retro pay" and "new jets" resonanted with them much stronger than "contract extension" did. I was surprised how many people were of the opinion "as long as they give me some money, I'll go for it." We have a fairly unified view here on this message board, but we have to remember we're just a few out of many.