ASA scheduling cost savings

[Freebrd]

gee my cell won't work for asa #s wonder why, i'm hungary be there in 30' gotta eat ya know nourisment and all dat, oh oh sumptin broke better call mtc, need lav & a bug wipe ca't push w/o them so sorry, oh.......thanks for all YOU do! :bomb:

 

[johnpeace]

You have not read it huh? Below 75 you get 50% on top of your 75.

So, what if the extension nets you less than min day credit? Do you get paid the 'actual or scheduled flight pay hours' at 150% or the min day value at 150%?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Man! Gas is really expensive now! I hope nobody forgets to shut down the APU or to shut an engine down on a long taxi or ground hold. Then again, it's hard to remember stuff when you slept 5 hours on a RR overnight in the midst of a 5 leg day!

Try to stay focused!

You do know that ASA doesn't pay for the fuel, right?

Oh, and you're going to try to get more money in negotiations how...by costing more? WTF?

 

[IFLYASA]

So, what if the extension nets you less than min day credit? Do you get paid the 'actual or scheduled flight pay hours' at 150% or the min day value at 150%?

If you get extended, let's say for a 2 hour round trip. You get the 2 hours credit, plus 50% on top of that (1 hour). So your net gain is 3 hours pay. So if you had 80 hours, you are now at 83 hours (2+1).

If you were blocked at 68 hours, you get the 2 hours credit, which now puts you at 70 hours, plus 50% on top of 75. So your net gain is 1 hour. 75 hours +1 gives you 76 hours.

If you had 1 hour of flying on your last day, you will only get paid 4 hours (1+3) total. Since min is 3.87, you would only gain .13 hours for a 2 hour extention. 150% is based on the block that you were extended

 

[Redan]

Oh, and you're going to try to get more money in negotiations how...by costing more? WTF?

Unfortunately, that seems to be one of the few things that gets you guys' attention.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Ok. I see. That's pretty nice that you regularly only have to work 64 hours and get paid the extra 11 hours, though at XJT you get add-pay for any pickups so if you are below MMG you still get full pay for any pickups.

No, sir. It's not nice. Everyone is working the same, if not an hour or two more in March to make 15 hours less of pay. It's not "pretty nice". It's a paycut. Like I told everyone PBS would offer.

 

[OCP]

Explain how PBS caused this.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Explain how PBS caused this.

PBS didn't "cause" this. Voting it in did.

 

[OCP]

PBS didn't "cause" this. Voting it in did.

That is evading the question. Why would this not have happened if PBS wasn't voted it?

 

[LazyLightnin']

That is evading the question. Why would this not have happened if PBS wasn't voted it?

Have you read this?
http://asamec.alpa.org/portals/32/publiccontent/documents/loa11.pdf

This is all we have against them in the grievance:
"The Company and the PWG will consider pilot quality of life and
operational efficiency when constructing trip(s) and performing bid run
solutions."

How do you grieve something as subjective as quality of life? Answer... Not very well.

ASA..Boom. Win. Charlie Sheen.

 

[crj567]

That is evading the question. Why would this not have happened if PBS wasn't voted it?

Because the company WAAAAYYYY too much flexibility. They can set the threshold way high or way low, and we are left with the responsibility of having to solve our own problems involving pre-scheduled events. Many of us are working so much for so little, we are defacto reserves.

-Have you ever seen lines so screwy before? Do you seriously think this is just crew planning's fault? Just wait. They have so much more to show you. The amount of power we have handed them is far beyond what most people now understand. But every day, more and more people are starting to see the size of the hole we have to dig ourselves out of, and they are not very pleased.

-PBS without some kind of trip rigs was just insane.

(P.S.- Wouldn't you love to be the arbitrator on this grievance?)
ALPA- "Dang, the company was supposed to consider our QOL!"
ASA- "We did consider it, and came to the firm conclusion that we don't give a rat's narrow ass."

-We already know that one is a complete waste of time!

 

[OCP]

Because the company WAAAAYYYY too much flexibility. They can set the threshold way high or way low, and we are left with the responsibility of having to solve our own problems involving pre-scheduled events. Many of us are working so much for so little, we are defacto reserves.

-Have you ever seen lines so screwy before? Do you seriously think this is just crew planning's fault? Just wait. They have so much more to show you. The amount of power we have handed them is far beyond what most people now understand. But every day, more and more people are starting to see the size of the hole we have to dig ourselves out of, and they are not very pleased.

-PBS without some kind of trip rigs was just insane.

(P.S.- Wouldn't you love to be the arbitrator on this grievance?)
ALPA- "Dang, the company was supposed to consider our QOL!"
ASA- "We did consider it, and came to the conclusion that we don't give a rat's narrow ass."

-We already know that one is a complete waste of time!

Ok. What "flexibility" did the company gain that they did not have before?
I ask the question literally because I want to know.
Where I sit, I love PBS, but hate the parings. So far PBS has allowed me more control than ever before. What specifically has PBS done to allow Sh!tty paring construction?

 

[crj567]

Ok. What "flexibility" did the company gain that they did not have before?
I ask the question literally because I want to know.
Where I sit, I love PBS, but hate the parings. So far PBS has allowed me more control than ever before. What specifically has PBS done to allow Sh!tty paring construction?

Did you notice that they dropped the threshold to 64 to give us a bid solution for March?

Do you think they might just be suckering us in until XJET signs off? What is there to stop them from raising the threshold by 15 hours and plugging trips in with a max credit value of 16 hours? They came pretty close to that for March, then backed off once they recognized that people would figure this whole deal out when they were all reduced to 10 days off in order to complete a schedule.

That was nice for March, but it fooled people into thinking that they would continue to do such things every month. They won't, unless we force them to.

What we need are some sort of real controls on pairing construction, or some kind of trip rigs. That way, we can reliably force them to make better trips-ones which are needed to complete a schedule.

-Bottom line: Right now, we have no way of preventing the company from building pairings which are so awful that it would be impossible for any of us to complete a schedule without working more than just one trip a week. We would be talking about sh!tty 4 days plus a day line or two day each week!!!!We had better fix this in the JCBA.

-TRIP RIGS!!!! PLEASE!

 

[crj567]

You're right. I even remember you warning of 15 hour trips before the PBS vote and here we are...with 15 hour 4-days.

I also remember JM on the alpa board saying the same. Peculiar.

Yep-

No one talks to anyone else, no one else ever reads anything there. Just one person hated this system that much. Just one.

Peculiar.

 

[mtsupilot]

Scheduling took a Captain off his 17 hour overnight today and made him fly an additional round trip. Then they deadheaded him back to the original overnight. They extended me for two round trips. Nobody at ASA is line holder anymore.

 

[CFI2766]

You do know that ASA doesn't pay for the fuel, right?

Oh, and you're going to try to get more money in negotiations how...by costing more? WTF?

Two thoughts come to mind:

1. The effort made at cost savings by constricting the pairing creation process...is questionable at very best. Regardless of any potential or future personnel changes, the bureaucratic tendencies of the decision making apparatus at our airline apparently will only serve to increase the personnel costs, even further handicapping our airline. Could we please have someone with some strategic vision look at the final product of pairings converted to lines for our pilots to bid on? Clearly, there needs to be a balance between pilots' Quality of Life and the financial needs of the Company. The abomination that is the March set of pairings probably appeared fantastic to the Company's bottom line...when looked at trough the lens of a microscope.
2. In the not too distant future, most stakeholders in the airline industry predict a shortage of skilled labor, e.g., pilots. It doesn't take an MBA to realize that the demand for the career of 'airline pilot' is waning. Actions like the ones taken by the Company in arbitrarily changing pilot work rules in March only serve to contribute to the upcoming labor shortage. When there are no pilots to hire to meet the schedule...the collective managerial suites of the airlines that will be in trouble...need only look at themselves for blame.

 

[Data]

Two thoughts come to mind:

1. The effort made at cost savings by constricting the pairing creation process...is questionable at very best. Regardless of any potential or future personnel changes, the bureaucratic tendencies of the decision making apparatus at our airline apparently will only serve to increase the personnel costs, even further handicapping our airline. Could we please have someone with some strategic vision look at the final product of pairings converted to lines for our pilots to bid on? Clearly, there needs to be a balance between pilots' Quality of Live and the financial needs of the Company. The abomination that is the March set of pairings probably appeared fantastic to the Company's bottom line...when looked at trough the lens of a microscope.
2. In the not too distant future, most stakeholders in the airline industry predict a shortage of skilled labor, e.g., pilots. It doesn't take an MBA to realize that the demand for the career of 'airline pilot' is waning. Actions like the ones taken by the Company in arbitrarily changing pilot work rules in March only serve to contribute to the upcoming labor shortage. When there are no pilots to hire to meet the schedule...the collective managements of the airlines that will be in trouble...need only look at themselves for blame.

In the words of Judge Chamberlain Haller; that is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection.

 

[79%N1]

In the words of Judge Chamberlain Haller; that is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection.

Are you mocking me?

 

[LazyLightnin']

The two yoots

 

[OCP]

Did you notice that they dropped the threshold to 64 to give us a bid solution for March?

Do you think they might just be suckering us in until XJET signs off? What is there to stop them from raising the threshold by 15 hours and plugging trips in with a max credit value of 16 hours? They came pretty close to that for March, then backed off once they recognized that people would figure this whole deal out when they were all reduced to 10 days off in order to complete a schedule.

That was nice for March, but it fooled people into thinking that they would continue to do such things every month. They won't, unless we force them to.

What we need are some sort of real controls on pairing construction, or some kind of trip rigs. That way, we can reliably force them to make better trips-ones which are needed to complete a schedule.

-Bottom line: Right now, we have no way of preventing the company from building pairings which are so awful that it would be impossible for any of us to complete a schedule without working more than just one trip a week. We would be talking about sh!tty 4 days plus a day line or two day each week!!!!We had better fix this in the JCBA.

-TRIP RIGS!!!! PLEASE!

I completely agree that we need rigs to either force productivity or pay, but how did PBS specifically give them the ability, which you say they didn't have, to make low credit trips that we all have to work?