ASA S3C Pass benefits?

[Cardenal]

First off, I hope that ASA folks keep the same level of bennies as before. I think things work just fine as it is and I don't want to see ASA folks get hosed. And for the record I wish mgmt would stop dicking y'all and contract negotiate in good faith already.

Having said that, what you and Cardinal seem to miss is that Delta isn't paying for a few seats, or some of the plane. We're paying for, essentially chartering the whole thing. We pay ASA a set fee to transport an aircraft from point A to point B. We sell the tickets and market the product. If the aircraft is full, Delta makes money. If it's empty, Delta loses money. ASA gets paid the same amount either way. They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

Would you pull the same crap on on a private charter? Doubt it. So what makes you think you have any sort of entitlement to seats that are fully bought and paid for by Delta Air Lines?

Just curious.

As I said: Selfish b#stard. And I might add: Self Serving and Inconsiderate

 

[Papa Woody]

Having said that, what you and Cardinal seem to miss is that Delta isn't paying for a few seats, or some of the plane. We're paying for, essentially chartering the whole thing. We pay ASA a set fee to transport an aircraft from point A to point B. We sell the tickets and market the product. If the aircraft is full, Delta makes money. If it's empty, Delta loses money. ASA gets paid the same amount either way. They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

Fair enough, and I have absolutely no argument against your assertion that we are not entitled to anything at all. I actually agree.

--BUT--

The truth is, we are not talking about fairness, nor entitlement. It is all about what it will take to recruit and retain a workforce. In fact, it is exactly those privileges that entice people to work for a shyttie company, at bullsh*t wages. And we are free to leave if we wish.

Delta knows that. Our low wages are precisely WHY these expensive little jets can even provide any lift in the first place. Because, as expensive as those 50-seaters are to buy, maintain, and fuel, they are that much cheaper to crew.

So go ahead.....yank the bennies.

Then pick up the resulting pieces. If you can still get workers....great! Market forces will ultimately show what compensation is necessary to staff an airline. And our turboprop time-builder wages are no longer doing the trick even at status quo, let alone with significant cuts.

 

[tuna pimp]

As I said: Selfish b#stard. And I might add: Self Serving and Inconsiderate

Like I said, I'm sincere in hoping ASA employees don't lose their benefits. Personally I'm not too thrilled about watching my take-home pay at DL drop 25% over the past year either. I bust my a$$ everyday too, for what it's worth, and a 25% cut is a heck of a sacrifice that I don't deserve to have to make. So cry me a river.

I simply objected to your sense of entitlement to a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines. How is that being self-serving and inconsiderate?

 

[Papa Woody]

I simply objected to your sense of entitlement to a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines.

Now you're starting to piss me off....

It may be a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines, but it is subsidized by the people working for low wages at ASA.

Now quit it! Don't make me have to go back on medication!

 

[Texx]

They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

So what makes you think you have any sort of entitlement to seats that are fully bought and paid for by Delta Air Lines?

Just curious.

You are correct about Delta and the cabin seats. And just to let you know, I own the 3rd seat in the cockpit. Remember that when the back is full.

PS - I don't commute.

 

[tuna pimp]

You are correct about Delta and the cabin seats. And just to let you know, I own the 3rd seat in the cockpit. Remember that when the back is full.

PS - I don't commute.

yup, you're right about that. Not that my little glider's licence will ever get me anywhere near that jumpseat. I work in the GO; not with our pilot group.

 

[tuna pimp]

Now you're starting to piss me off....

It may be a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines, but it is subsidized by the people working for low wages at ASA.

Now quit it! Don't make me have to go back on medication!

I don't want to piss you off, Papa. Your previous post made some good points. Guess it's double-edged sword. Those lower wages also allowed the regional airline industry to mushroom over the past 10 years and got many, many pilots into CRJs who 15-20 years ago would have been flying Twin Otters in Alaska until they were 30.

Wages are low at ASA because that's what the market will permit airlines to pay for labor. Supply and demand. ASA's wage rates are pretty much in line with the other regionals, no? And salaries are dropping at every airline, both inside and outside of the flightdeck. $199 JFK-LAX is a good thing for customers. Not so good for airline employees who's hyde these fares are taken out of.

 

[DAL737FO]

I really don't know why there is such an outrage about these pass privledges. ASA was a wholly owned airline of Delta air lines and as such had DOH pass privledges just like Comair for non rev purposes. At the same time if you tried to fly on SkyWest you would have been an S3C status just like me as a mainline pilot. Now ASA is owned by SkyWest, not Delta, I would think that you would have DOH pass privledges on SkyWest and S3C on Delta now. Why would you think that you would have anything else? Not trying to throw salt in a wound but really want to know why you would keep the same pass privledges as Comair but not be wholly owned?

Here's a different slant, say you worked for UPS and had free shipping on UPS and a 25% discount at DHL and DHL employees get free shipping on DHL and a 25% discount at UPS. The next year you start to work for DHL but you still want the free shipping at UPS not the 25% discount the rest of the DHL employees get. Do you see that happening?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

DAL737FO,

I think the problem is not so much with having S3Cs. That much I can understand. The issue we as ASA pilots have is Delta employees having S3 priviledges on ASA flights. It seems a bit one sided that we are to be treated as second-class on your airline while you are treated like equals on ours. I think it's going to make for some hard feelings, as if there's not enough of those to go around already.

 

[SKYMASTER]

Dear G.O.(tuna pimp)-
Wake up the kool-aid makers for some java coffee. UPS and FEDEX flight officer salaries are going up. We make billions of dollars in profit a year. We do this with 3-man crews flying DC-8's no less. Our secret? Charging more than the cost of the service. A lot of Americans learn that by going to college.

As for the passenger "airLines," the young CRJ captains are a direct result of the airlines miserable management failures.
-In the 90's, 80's and previous, you could fly 5-10 years civi or military and get on with THE airLine. In an effort to have the airlines appeal to shareholders, management finds a way around scope, sacrificing their own assurance of quality and service, and starts farming out the flying to the RJ. Exec manag., who could care less about his company, puts their 5 yrs. in and splits with millions. Who cares about the long term numbers? Completely criminal.

ARE YOU TELLING ME THE RJ MADE THINGS BETTER? If you thing I'm wrong,
then it must be pure coincidence that everyone is bankrupt and miserable.

Black and white, the RJ is a terrible failure. Despite cheap labor, the seat mile cost is horrific. It only worked to avoid the mainline pilot and to "clean up the books."

If they really needed it, I'm sure all pilots and customers would have been fine with more jobs available at the AirLine and not Connection/Express. Life is terrible at a regional (commuter) airline.
I MEAN IT WHEN I SAY AIRPORT MANAGEMENT, THE FAA, THE AIRLINES; THEY'RE ALL CHEATS AND LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell that to your buddies in the
G.O.
p.s. JFK-LAX is a terrible example. Practically
every other fare is at least $500-$1000 regardless of being either
500 miles or 3000 miles.