ASA S3C Pass benefits?

[shamrock]

All you commuters here, enlighten a non-commuter. How much will S3C affect your commute personally? Are the loads usually so close that the drop in priority will make the difference between getting on and getting left behind?

I've done a fair bit of non-revving in my time at ASA (but not nearly as much as a commuter) and it's always seemed fairly obvious ahead of time whether I would get on or not, regardless of priority. I'm not making any judgements about commuters (you're braver than I am!), I just find it interesting to hear talk of people quitting over the changes and I'm curious about how tight it will with S3C priority.

 

[theskyking]

You will fly S3 on your own epquipment, ahead of Delta. That's the way it is at OO and I'm sure will be with you guys.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Early word I am hearing is that Delta Mainline is S3 and ASA / SkyW are S3C across the board. The logic is that Delta owns the flying. For those of you who have been around a while you might remember that in 1999 ALPA (yes ALPA) filed a grievance on behalf of Delta mainline pilots who were angry that ASA employees were given equal status as Delta employees. The grievance was based on contract language which forbade Delta from making any substantial changes to the pass benefit. I believe the grievance went away on the basis that Delta employees got equal status on ASA flights - which a lot of them use for commuting.

Delta wants more concessions from its pilots and ego goes a long way over there. If going back to telling the Delta pilots what they want to hear gets Delta management a nickel in savings, it is seen as a win / win.

All the Connection outfits are ( in ALPA's view and in Delta's view ) is a bunch of low life loosers who do not deserve even the most insignificant gesture to maintain their loyalty. Someone needs to see if our contract has any reference to a change (reduction / loss) of pass benefits and see how interested ALPA is in promoting our grievance.

And just to think how many times I've called dispatch to reduce extra fuel to get those folks on our airplanes....

~~~^~~~

 

[It'll Fly]

Tell me, is there anyone on this thread who will quit because you lose S3 status on Delta or any other change to benefits. If your commuting and it makes your job untenable I can see it but come on, "Mass Exodus"?

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

 

[CF34-3B1]

All you commuters here, enlighten a non-commuter. How much will S3C affect your commute personally? Are the loads usually so close that the drop in priority will make the difference between getting on and getting left behind?.

For the many many ex DFW based crew members who still live there, there are lots of flights where you don't get on as an S2, let alone an S3.

An S3C might as well stay home and call in sick.

Get on TravelNet some time and look at the ATL DFW flights.

LOTS of priority dates in the 1970s and 80s commuting back and forth.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

This was copied from deltanet, take it as you wish.

THE OFFICIAL WORD ON ASA/SKYWEST (non rev) CAME YESTERDAY!!
Posted: Oct 20, 2005 9:34 AM

This is NO RUMOR folks, and straight from the ASA management meetings held @ Ga. Tech on the 19th. The only thing i haven't seen on paper (or didn't pay attention to) was when it takes effect (as I've heard Jan06 and July 06, but July more often than Jan).

As of the date it starts in 06 (either Jan or July)

ASA and Skywest employees will receive unlimited S3C, including the very valuable (although NOW significantly harder to use) 18 international segments, which ASA already had, but skywest did not. ASA loses their S2 travel days(and will NOT receive any S2B's C's or anything else. Oh, and 4 buddy passes.

So there you have it... Will the 18 segments staying in place prevent what potentially would have been the largest mass exodus in the history of the industry, or will the idea of trying to come home with an S3C from an international destination still be enough to push people out the door?

One thing I DID NOT see, was weather ASA maintains the benefit of flying free to Dakar, and Jburg on SAA. ANOTHER HUGE piece of the puzzle for MANY.

Hey boss maybe i am reading into it the wrong way??? Do the buddy passes stay or go. thanks

 

[~~~^~~~]

Tell me, is there anyone on this thread who will quit because you lose S3 status on Delta or any other change to benefits. If your commuting and it makes your job untenable I can see it but come on, "Mass Exodus"?

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

When Jerry Atkin came to Atlanta, THE question brought by ramp personnel and gate agents, repeated again and again and again and again, until everyone was so sick of hearing it was "what about pass benefits?"

Will pilots exit in droves, probably not. But again we are reminded of our place as pilots and a lot of us realize the need to move on. I don't think it will have a big effect on mechanics either.

But this is a critical difference for Rampers and Flight Attendants. The difference between the ramp and Wendy's is whether you like free food and air conditioning, or if you and your friends prefer to travel.

Mr. Atkin probably figured pass benefits don't matter - candidly - I did not think they mattered until I sat in on meetings which involved our front line and below wing service employees. Then, I realized how big a deal this is.

~~~^~~~

 

[rjcap]

Pass benefits are part of our compensation. I would say that this is a BIG deal considering we are 3+ years without a new contract and the current contract continues to be violated shamelessly.

Will this be the final straw that pushes pilots to leave the company ? Who knows. It is however, another in a series of mgmt actions that are detrimental to the pilots.

How many of our pilots commute ?????

 

[bailout]

How many Mainline employees have been hired in the last 4-5 years? Isnt that the only way they could get on in front of as ASA employee? (one who has been here 4-5 years) I dont think there many at all, so other than S3bs, I dont see how this is going to make a big difference.

 

[No.W.]

That would mean a change at SkyWest, as right now we travel ahead of delta and united employees on our own equipment. Not saying it won't happen, just saying thats not how it is right now. We have been advised of no changes on this side of the SKW Inc. "Fence". We shall see...

 

[Smarta$$]

Can someone please explain what all the codes stand for and how they are used? (S3c and so on) Thanks

 

[Cardenal]

You really think there are that many people (more than 10) that view this as a HUGE piece of the puzzle?!?!?!?

Overall comment: What the F*ck was the problem in keeping things as they presently are? But specifically:

1st: Yes. It is a HUGE piece of the puzzle. I chose to come to ASA BECAUSE of the flight benefits and the fact it was owned by Delta--If I wanted to fly for some b#$sh*t regional I would have applied to Chihuahua or Mesa or some other craphole.

2nd: Just about the only reason to keep this career is the travel benefits (and, unfortunately for me, a love for flying). I make my $ elsewhere. Travel is how you become a more worldly and cultured person.

3rd: If mainline folks think they can boot ASA people off of ASA airplanes...they are in for a surprise. I don't care what "policy" is in place--this will get dirty.

4th: How selfish can these bas&tards be? How many times have I gotten sand bags for the back, played with the fuel and done EVERYTHING in my power to help a DAL guy/gal get to work or home and NOW THIS?????

Jeez.....

 

[Salty Pirate]

Does anyone have a clue what benefits parents will get if any at all. What do skywest parents or travel companions currently receive.

 

[wms]

Tell me, is there anyone on this thread who will quit because you lose S3 status on Delta or any other change to benefits. If your commuting and it makes your job untenable I can see it but come on, "Mass Exodus"?

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

The mass exodus has been going on in flight ops all year. We've been losing from 10 pilots per month to 10 pilots per week, with more than 10% of our pilot group leaving since the first of the year(mostly new hires, but lots of captains also). The real exodus will be the other front line personel, in-flight, rampers, gate, maybe even GO, etc. There are alot of immigrants here who use the travel for themselves and their families to go back home. If companions and parents are cut out, that will add to the unrest. Why else would people work this under-paid, low benefit job rather than a more comfortable indoor one except for the chance to travel. Talk to the folks outside of flight ops and travel is huge. To add salt to the wounds, there are ASA stations that work DAL planes. I wonder what DAL performance will be there.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Where is this coming from?

Where is all this "Information" coming from? I hope it is not true. But, I'd like to see where the info comes from. Does it come from a memo that was leaked or just overheard in the toilet. Where are all of the "Rumors" coming from? Until there is a credible source, it is just a rumor. There are a lot of rumors out there and even more who fan the flames.

Stop the insanity!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Maybe the info was intentionally leaked so that mgmt teams could watch boards like this to see how pissed we get. Then, they could choose the most upsetting (sp?) manor to change to.

Everyone needs to relax until they come out with what's official. Besides, you cannot change what they are going to do by venting on this board. If it upsets you this much, then discuss it with your MEC or supervisor.

 

[Papa Woody]

3rd: If mainline folks think they can boot ASA people off of ASA airplanes...they are in for a surprise. I don't care what "policy" is in place--this will get dirty.

That's right. I was gonna quit ASA if our bennies get cut

--BUT--

IF the changes are so that Delta employees can boot ASA guys off ASA planes...

I will stay JUST SO I CAN sabotage that "policy."

It will get very dirty!

 

[Texx]

I hope it is not true. But, I'd like to see where the info comes from. Does it come from a memo that was leaked or just overheard in the toilet. Where are all of the "Rumors" coming from?
Stop the insanity!

It is true so just sit back and wait until 07/01/2006.

Also, check the ALPA board. Your medical insurance is going up also.

 

[tuna pimp]

That's right. I was gonna quit ASA if our bennies get cut

--BUT--

IF the changes are so that Delta employees can boot ASA guys off ASA planes...

I will stay JUST SO I CAN sabotage that "policy."

It will get very dirty!

First off, I hope that ASA folks keep the same level of bennies as before. I think things work just fine as it is and I don't want to see ASA folks get hosed. And for the record I wish mgmt would stop dicking y'all and contract negotiate in good faith already.

Having said that, what you and Cardinal seem to miss is that Delta isn't paying for a few seats, or some of the plane. We're paying for, essentially chartering the whole thing. We pay ASA a set fee to transport an aircraft from point A to point B. We sell the tickets and market the product. If the aircraft is full, Delta makes money. If it's empty, Delta loses money. ASA gets paid the same amount either way. They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

Would you pull the same crap on on a private charter? Doubt it. So what makes you think you have any sort of entitlement to seats that are fully bought and paid for by Delta Air Lines?

Just curious.

 

[Grassstrippilot]

All you commuters here, enlighten a non-commuter. How much will S3C affect your commute personally? Are the loads usually so close that the drop in priority will make the difference between getting on and getting left behind?

I've done a fair bit of non-revving in my time at ASA (but not nearly as much as a commuter) and it's always seemed fairly obvious ahead of time whether I would get on or not, regardless of priority. I'm not making any judgements about commuters (you're braver than I am!), I just find it interesting to hear talk of people quitting over the changes and I'm curious about how tight it will with S3C priority.

I commuted for over 3 years on S3C, with only the 800 as my source of info on flight loads. It was a pain, but doable. However, here is the key that made it doable. My company had a very good commuter clause which took the stress out of commuting. I wouldn't want to commute with an S3C and no commuter clause.

The company my be against one, but the NC needs to make this somewhat of a priority, in my opinion. Unfortunately, there are so many things that need to be updated in the next contract, I doubt we have enough bargining chips for them all.

One thing though about a commuter clause. Those that don't commute typically don't care about having one. If you get a good commuter clause, it can actaully help everyone. For example, you may live at your domicile, but your parents still live in Detroit. You go home for the holidays but have to go back to work for a 3 day between Christmas and New Years. Under a good commuter clause, you would be covered getting back to work. By definition you aren't a commuter, but it still affords you the same protection. Same thing coming home from vacation. Just food for thought.