ASA S3C Pass benefits?

[Smarta$$]

Can someone please explain what all the codes stand for and how they are used? (S3c and so on) Thanks

 

[Cardenal]

You really think there are that many people (more than 10) that view this as a HUGE piece of the puzzle?!?!?!?

Overall comment: What the F*ck was the problem in keeping things as they presently are? But specifically:

1st: Yes. It is a HUGE piece of the puzzle. I chose to come to ASA BECAUSE of the flight benefits and the fact it was owned by Delta--If I wanted to fly for some b#$sh*t regional I would have applied to Chihuahua or Mesa or some other craphole.

2nd: Just about the only reason to keep this career is the travel benefits (and, unfortunately for me, a love for flying). I make my $ elsewhere. Travel is how you become a more worldly and cultured person.

3rd: If mainline folks think they can boot ASA people off of ASA airplanes...they are in for a surprise. I don't care what "policy" is in place--this will get dirty.

4th: How selfish can these bas&tards be? How many times have I gotten sand bags for the back, played with the fuel and done EVERYTHING in my power to help a DAL guy/gal get to work or home and NOW THIS?????

Jeez.....

 

[Salty Pirate]

Does anyone have a clue what benefits parents will get if any at all. What do skywest parents or travel companions currently receive.

 

[wms]

Tell me, is there anyone on this thread who will quit because you lose S3 status on Delta or any other change to benefits. If your commuting and it makes your job untenable I can see it but come on, "Mass Exodus"?

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

The mass exodus has been going on in flight ops all year. We've been losing from 10 pilots per month to 10 pilots per week, with more than 10% of our pilot group leaving since the first of the year(mostly new hires, but lots of captains also). The real exodus will be the other front line personel, in-flight, rampers, gate, maybe even GO, etc. There are alot of immigrants here who use the travel for themselves and their families to go back home. If companions and parents are cut out, that will add to the unrest. Why else would people work this under-paid, low benefit job rather than a more comfortable indoor one except for the chance to travel. Talk to the folks outside of flight ops and travel is huge. To add salt to the wounds, there are ASA stations that work DAL planes. I wonder what DAL performance will be there.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Where is this coming from?

Where is all this "Information" coming from? I hope it is not true. But, I'd like to see where the info comes from. Does it come from a memo that was leaked or just overheard in the toilet. Where are all of the "Rumors" coming from? Until there is a credible source, it is just a rumor. There are a lot of rumors out there and even more who fan the flames.

Stop the insanity!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Maybe the info was intentionally leaked so that mgmt teams could watch boards like this to see how pissed we get. Then, they could choose the most upsetting (sp?) manor to change to.

Everyone needs to relax until they come out with what's official. Besides, you cannot change what they are going to do by venting on this board. If it upsets you this much, then discuss it with your MEC or supervisor.

 

[Papa Woody]

3rd: If mainline folks think they can boot ASA people off of ASA airplanes...they are in for a surprise. I don't care what "policy" is in place--this will get dirty.

That's right. I was gonna quit ASA if our bennies get cut

--BUT--

IF the changes are so that Delta employees can boot ASA guys off ASA planes...

I will stay JUST SO I CAN sabotage that "policy."

It will get very dirty!

 

[Texx]

I hope it is not true. But, I'd like to see where the info comes from. Does it come from a memo that was leaked or just overheard in the toilet. Where are all of the "Rumors" coming from?
Stop the insanity!

It is true so just sit back and wait until 07/01/2006.

Also, check the ALPA board. Your medical insurance is going up also.

 

[tuna pimp]

That's right. I was gonna quit ASA if our bennies get cut

--BUT--

IF the changes are so that Delta employees can boot ASA guys off ASA planes...

I will stay JUST SO I CAN sabotage that "policy."

It will get very dirty!

First off, I hope that ASA folks keep the same level of bennies as before. I think things work just fine as it is and I don't want to see ASA folks get hosed. And for the record I wish mgmt would stop dicking y'all and contract negotiate in good faith already.

Having said that, what you and Cardinal seem to miss is that Delta isn't paying for a few seats, or some of the plane. We're paying for, essentially chartering the whole thing. We pay ASA a set fee to transport an aircraft from point A to point B. We sell the tickets and market the product. If the aircraft is full, Delta makes money. If it's empty, Delta loses money. ASA gets paid the same amount either way. They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

Would you pull the same crap on on a private charter? Doubt it. So what makes you think you have any sort of entitlement to seats that are fully bought and paid for by Delta Air Lines?

Just curious.

 

[Grassstrippilot]

All you commuters here, enlighten a non-commuter. How much will S3C affect your commute personally? Are the loads usually so close that the drop in priority will make the difference between getting on and getting left behind?

I've done a fair bit of non-revving in my time at ASA (but not nearly as much as a commuter) and it's always seemed fairly obvious ahead of time whether I would get on or not, regardless of priority. I'm not making any judgements about commuters (you're braver than I am!), I just find it interesting to hear talk of people quitting over the changes and I'm curious about how tight it will with S3C priority.

I commuted for over 3 years on S3C, with only the 800 as my source of info on flight loads. It was a pain, but doable. However, here is the key that made it doable. My company had a very good commuter clause which took the stress out of commuting. I wouldn't want to commute with an S3C and no commuter clause.

The company my be against one, but the NC needs to make this somewhat of a priority, in my opinion. Unfortunately, there are so many things that need to be updated in the next contract, I doubt we have enough bargining chips for them all.

One thing though about a commuter clause. Those that don't commute typically don't care about having one. If you get a good commuter clause, it can actaully help everyone. For example, you may live at your domicile, but your parents still live in Detroit. You go home for the holidays but have to go back to work for a 3 day between Christmas and New Years. Under a good commuter clause, you would be covered getting back to work. By definition you aren't a commuter, but it still affords you the same protection. Same thing coming home from vacation. Just food for thought.

 

[Cardenal]

First off, I hope that ASA folks keep the same level of bennies as before. I think things work just fine as it is and I don't want to see ASA folks get hosed. And for the record I wish mgmt would stop dicking y'all and contract negotiate in good faith already.

Having said that, what you and Cardinal seem to miss is that Delta isn't paying for a few seats, or some of the plane. We're paying for, essentially chartering the whole thing. We pay ASA a set fee to transport an aircraft from point A to point B. We sell the tickets and market the product. If the aircraft is full, Delta makes money. If it's empty, Delta loses money. ASA gets paid the same amount either way. They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

Would you pull the same crap on on a private charter? Doubt it. So what makes you think you have any sort of entitlement to seats that are fully bought and paid for by Delta Air Lines?

Just curious.

As I said: Selfish b#stard. And I might add: Self Serving and Inconsiderate

 

[Papa Woody]

Having said that, what you and Cardinal seem to miss is that Delta isn't paying for a few seats, or some of the plane. We're paying for, essentially chartering the whole thing. We pay ASA a set fee to transport an aircraft from point A to point B. We sell the tickets and market the product. If the aircraft is full, Delta makes money. If it's empty, Delta loses money. ASA gets paid the same amount either way. They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

Fair enough, and I have absolutely no argument against your assertion that we are not entitled to anything at all. I actually agree.

--BUT--

The truth is, we are not talking about fairness, nor entitlement. It is all about what it will take to recruit and retain a workforce. In fact, it is exactly those privileges that entice people to work for a shyttie company, at bullsh*t wages. And we are free to leave if we wish.

Delta knows that. Our low wages are precisely WHY these expensive little jets can even provide any lift in the first place. Because, as expensive as those 50-seaters are to buy, maintain, and fuel, they are that much cheaper to crew.

So go ahead.....yank the bennies.

Then pick up the resulting pieces. If you can still get workers....great! Market forces will ultimately show what compensation is necessary to staff an airline. And our turboprop time-builder wages are no longer doing the trick even at status quo, let alone with significant cuts.

 

[tuna pimp]

As I said: Selfish b#stard. And I might add: Self Serving and Inconsiderate

Like I said, I'm sincere in hoping ASA employees don't lose their benefits. Personally I'm not too thrilled about watching my take-home pay at DL drop 25% over the past year either. I bust my a$$ everyday too, for what it's worth, and a 25% cut is a heck of a sacrifice that I don't deserve to have to make. So cry me a river.

I simply objected to your sense of entitlement to a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines. How is that being self-serving and inconsiderate?

 

[Papa Woody]

I simply objected to your sense of entitlement to a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines.

Now you're starting to piss me off....

It may be a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines, but it is subsidized by the people working for low wages at ASA.

Now quit it! Don't make me have to go back on medication!

 

[Texx]

They're our seats and we'll distribute them any way we bloody well please.

So what makes you think you have any sort of entitlement to seats that are fully bought and paid for by Delta Air Lines?

Just curious.

You are correct about Delta and the cabin seats. And just to let you know, I own the 3rd seat in the cockpit. Remember that when the back is full.

PS - I don't commute.

 

[tuna pimp]

You are correct about Delta and the cabin seats. And just to let you know, I own the 3rd seat in the cockpit. Remember that when the back is full.

PS - I don't commute.

yup, you're right about that. Not that my little glider's licence will ever get me anywhere near that jumpseat. I work in the GO; not with our pilot group.

 

[tuna pimp]

Now you're starting to piss me off....

It may be a product that was bought and paid for entirely by Delta Air Lines, but it is subsidized by the people working for low wages at ASA.

Now quit it! Don't make me have to go back on medication!

I don't want to piss you off, Papa. Your previous post made some good points. Guess it's double-edged sword. Those lower wages also allowed the regional airline industry to mushroom over the past 10 years and got many, many pilots into CRJs who 15-20 years ago would have been flying Twin Otters in Alaska until they were 30.

Wages are low at ASA because that's what the market will permit airlines to pay for labor. Supply and demand. ASA's wage rates are pretty much in line with the other regionals, no? And salaries are dropping at every airline, both inside and outside of the flightdeck. $199 JFK-LAX is a good thing for customers. Not so good for airline employees who's hyde these fares are taken out of.

 

[DAL737FO]

I really don't know why there is such an outrage about these pass privledges. ASA was a wholly owned airline of Delta air lines and as such had DOH pass privledges just like Comair for non rev purposes. At the same time if you tried to fly on SkyWest you would have been an S3C status just like me as a mainline pilot. Now ASA is owned by SkyWest, not Delta, I would think that you would have DOH pass privledges on SkyWest and S3C on Delta now. Why would you think that you would have anything else? Not trying to throw salt in a wound but really want to know why you would keep the same pass privledges as Comair but not be wholly owned?

Here's a different slant, say you worked for UPS and had free shipping on UPS and a 25% discount at DHL and DHL employees get free shipping on DHL and a 25% discount at UPS. The next year you start to work for DHL but you still want the free shipping at UPS not the 25% discount the rest of the DHL employees get. Do you see that happening?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

DAL737FO,

I think the problem is not so much with having S3Cs. That much I can understand. The issue we as ASA pilots have is Delta employees having S3 priviledges on ASA flights. It seems a bit one sided that we are to be treated as second-class on your airline while you are treated like equals on ours. I think it's going to make for some hard feelings, as if there's not enough of those to go around already.

 

[SKYMASTER]

Dear G.O.(tuna pimp)-
Wake up the kool-aid makers for some java coffee. UPS and FEDEX flight officer salaries are going up. We make billions of dollars in profit a year. We do this with 3-man crews flying DC-8's no less. Our secret? Charging more than the cost of the service. A lot of Americans learn that by going to college.

As for the passenger "airLines," the young CRJ captains are a direct result of the airlines miserable management failures.
-In the 90's, 80's and previous, you could fly 5-10 years civi or military and get on with THE airLine. In an effort to have the airlines appeal to shareholders, management finds a way around scope, sacrificing their own assurance of quality and service, and starts farming out the flying to the RJ. Exec manag., who could care less about his company, puts their 5 yrs. in and splits with millions. Who cares about the long term numbers? Completely criminal.

ARE YOU TELLING ME THE RJ MADE THINGS BETTER? If you thing I'm wrong,
then it must be pure coincidence that everyone is bankrupt and miserable.

Black and white, the RJ is a terrible failure. Despite cheap labor, the seat mile cost is horrific. It only worked to avoid the mainline pilot and to "clean up the books."

If they really needed it, I'm sure all pilots and customers would have been fine with more jobs available at the AirLine and not Connection/Express. Life is terrible at a regional (commuter) airline.
I MEAN IT WHEN I SAY AIRPORT MANAGEMENT, THE FAA, THE AIRLINES; THEY'RE ALL CHEATS AND LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell that to your buddies in the
G.O.
p.s. JFK-LAX is a terrible example. Practically
every other fare is at least $500-$1000 regardless of being either
500 miles or 3000 miles.

 

[DAL737FO]

DAL737FO,

I think the problem is not so much with having S3Cs. That much I can understand. The issue we as ASA pilots have is Delta employees having S3 priviledges on ASA flights. It seems a bit one sided that we are to be treated as second-class on your airline while you are treated like equals on ours. I think it's going to make for some hard feelings, as if there's not enough of those to go around already.

Unless you've seen something that I haven't, we will be S3C on ASA just like we are S3C on SkyWest. I have heard nothing to indicate that Delta employees will continue to receive S3 priority on ASA. I've seen a couple of posts about the arrogance of the mainline guys for pushing for this and I'm here to tell you that we have bigger fish to fry than to worry about pass priorities on ASA.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Unless you've seen something that I haven't, we will be S3C on ASA just like we are S3C on SkyWest. I have heard nothing to indicate that Delta employees will continue to receive S3 priority on ASA. I've seen a couple of posts about the arrogance of the mainline guys for pushing for this and I'm here to tell you that we have bigger fish to fry than to worry about pass priorities on ASA.

Word around the campfire on the ASA side of the house is that you WILL have S3s on ASA. If that's the case, I think it's a bunch of crap.

 

[RichO]

I've commuted to CVG from the west coast for 3 years now. The ability to bid good days to work makes a huge difference so I've been able to commute on good commuting days. I have traveled around and have seen times where I've had to use a S2 and then was the only non-rev to get on board. However, most of the time, the only difference is(if you are able to select resonable flights) is whether or not your in First/Business or back in the cattle car.

Now, if you start to take a look at the NEW Delta schedules starting in Dec, maybe you'll start to freak a little. Less flights, smaller airplanes, commuting on a S3C could be pretty painful.

 

[Cardenal]

I really don't know why there is such an outrage about these pass privledges. ASA was a wholly owned airline of Delta air lines and as such had DOH pass privledges just like Comair for non rev purposes. At the same time if you tried to fly on SkyWest you would have been an S3C status just like me as a mainline pilot. Now ASA is owned by SkyWest, not Delta, I would think that you would have DOH pass privledges on SkyWest and S3C on Delta now. Why would you think that you would have anything else? Not trying to throw salt in a wound but really want to know why you would keep the same pass privledges as Comair but not be wholly owned?

Here's a different slant, say you worked for UPS and had free shipping on UPS and a 25% discount at DHL and DHL employees get free shipping on DHL and a 25% discount at UPS. The next year you start to work for DHL but you still want the free shipping at UPS not the 25% discount the rest of the DHL employees get. Do you see that happening?

Actually, there IS a precedent (or so I've been told--don't know it first hand). My Alzheimer's is acting up today but DAL owned something called "world something or other", sold it and the employees kept their travel benefits. I am sorry I don't know the exact reference but yes, there is a precedent.

Does anyone know to what I am trying to refer?

Thanks.

And though you all may be technically correct, I stand by my point that this mean, selfish, selfserving, cold, and unfair. I like being nice to people and being treated nicely in return...is that too much to ask?

 

[sweptback]

Actually, there IS a precedent (or so I've been told--don't know it first hand). My Alzheimer's is acting up today but DAL owned something called "world something or other", sold it and the employees kept their travel benefits. I am sorry I don't know the exact reference but yes, there is a precedent.

Does anyone know to what I am trying to refer?

Thanks.

And though you all may be technically correct, I stand by my point that this mean, selfish, selfserving, cold, and unfair. I like being nice to people and being treated nicely in return...is that too much to ask?

Worldspan.

As I recall all employees on property the day they were spun off kept their travel benefits, and all new employees received the S3C special. Seems pretty fair to me.