ASA Picketing today... How'd it go?

[ohplease!]

Tell me, how long have you been at ASA? I'd like to know from what experience backgroung you base your views.

Don't tell me how to taxi. Don't tell me how to write things up. When you get your own aircraft, do as you see fit.

And by the way, "letting your CNC/MEC" handle things hasn't worked for 4 years. Until the pilots on the line make it happen like we did in '98 the MEC is firing blanks!

their firing blanks anyway! the sooner they realize it and get serious about getting this settled, the better off we'll ALL be.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Tell me, how long have you been at ASA? I'd like to know from what experience backgroung you base your views.

Don't tell me how to taxi. Don't tell me how to write things up. When you get your own aircraft, do as you see fit.

And by the way, "letting your CNC/MEC" handle things hasn't worked for 4 years. Until the pilots on the line make it happen like we did in '98 the MEC is firing blanks!

A bit hostile aren't we? I am not telling you what to do but simply stating fact. Can you refute the fact that such a job action only hurts the people that pay your salary? Can you refute the fact that fuel is a flow through cost to mainline, our only contracted carrier that is struggling to come out of bankrupcy? Can you refute the fact that if our performance does stay low that DL can and will replace us?

On a side note, I thought that you were one of the extreme card carrying ALPA members. Remeber, ALPA to the end? Now you say "letting ALPA handle things hasn't worked". Have you had a change of heart?

 

[John Pennekamp]

A bit hostile aren't we?

Yes. I'm sick of listening to a junior FO who's never been through a contract negotiation at this company tell a bunch of experienced pilots what we should settle for!

I am not telling you what to do but simply stating fact.

Yes you are. Amd you're passing off your opinion as fact.

Can you refute the fact that such a job action only hurts the people that pay your salary?

Yes. The passengers DON'T pay my salary. I get paid even when the plane is empty. I get paid even when they write nasty letters. Don't fall for that old management trap to get pilots like yourself to take ownership for something you don't own. This isn't your airline, you just drive the bus... every other leg.

Can you refute the fact that fuel is a flow through cost to mainline, our only contracted carrier that is struggling to come out of bankrupcy?

Quote the Delta-skywest-ASA codeshare agreement section that spells out the fuel pass through costs for us. You have seen it, right? *TIC* Got news for ya... the fuel pass through is capped to a certain level. It's not 100%.

Can you refute the fact that if our performance does stay low that DL can and will replace us?

Again, quote the Delta-skywest-ASA codeshare agreement section that spells out the performance penalties, since you've apparently seen something even our union reps haven't been allowed to see. You're just passing along what Lyin' Liarbreque told you, not what you can prove.

On a side note, I thought that you were one of the extreme card carrying ALPA members. Remeber, ALPA to the end? Now you say "letting ALPA handle things hasn't worked". Have you had a change of heart?

No, contrary to what you, and "Joe Merchant" and other management shills have said, I'm not Mr Pro ALPA. Read all of my posts, and you'll see I have no love for Uncle Duane or ALPA's national politics. I do, however support my MEC amd my local reps (except JB, of course) because doing so is the only way we will get a contract. The company thinks the pilot group doesn't support
ALPA, mostly because of the crap y'all spew here, and THIS is why they are testing us and pushing us to revolt against ALPA. And Jerry Atkin is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[ASARJMan]

thats a bit of a double edged sword....ASA management has a hand in not getting things done too. Delta could also apply a little more pressure to SkyW/ASA to get it done as well. Its not just the pilot group causing delays.

That being said, ALPA MUST become more reasonable in their demands. Get it done NOW!

For once you are making sense ohplease, and I agree with the above. Except the last part. I think ALPA is being reasonable, and will come off what they're asking for. Problem is, ASA won't budge off their offer. And like you say, it is up to each side to make some movement to get it done. The company won't move is the problem and hold-up right now.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ohplease!]

For once you are making sense ohplease, and I agree with the above. Except the last part. I think ALPA is being reasonable, and will come off what they're asking for. Problem is, ASA won't budge off their offer. And like you say, it is up to each side to make some movement to get it done. The company won't move is the problem and hold-up right now.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

I've seen mgmt movement lately, especially this last proposal. I was told, BY YNGVE face to face, the company "agreed to pretty much everything we asked for" but tied it to PBS which, Yngve said he believes we will eventually end up with but, there was too much unknown about the PBS system to agree to it. That point I will have to defer to "experts" because I don't know much about PBS.

I have not seen movement from ALPA. This is based on ALPA's own statements and emails. I believe with some realistic movement by ALPA, ASA would make the neccessary moves to get this settled. Including company compromisses on PBS.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

OK Johnny lets review b/c apparently you missed some things.

#1 never make assumptions b/c you only make an a** out of yourself. Also, yes your post does seem hostile.
#2 Self explanatory
#3 Yes we are paid fee for departure. Let’s follow the money shall we. Pax pays DL – DL pays SKW Inc – SKW Inc cuts ASA – ASA pays you. Start at the top and work your way down please.
#4 OK lets follow your logic. We will blow through the DL agreed cost and hurt ASA. Do you know what/how much that will take?
#5 Simply put if we don’t meet agreed upon terms we can and will be replaced. If you don’t believe that then you are overly optimistic.
#6 Maybe not ALPA national but on previous post anything the ASA CNC/MEC says you were adamantly in favor of with little to no question.

Did I miss anything?

 

[ASARJMan]

I've seen mgmt movement lately, especially this last proposal. I was told, BY YNGVE face to face, the company "agreed to pretty much everything we asked for" but tied it to PBS which, Yngve said he believes we will eventually end up with but, there was too much unknown about the PBS system to agree to it. That point I will have to defer to "experts" because I don't know much about PBS.

I have not seen movement from ALPA. This is based on ALPA's own statements and emails. I believe with some realistic movement by ALPA, ASA would make the neccessary moves to get this settled. Including company compromisses on PBS.

Don't you see how the company f#@ks up negoiations every time? It took years to finally get Section 13 Scheduling done and now the company throws another wrench in there. The TA'd Sect 13 is a very good section now that favors and protects the ASA pilots. Obviously the company wants to change it now with this PBS crap after years ago of not wanting PBS! So, who is stalling movement here?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ohplease!]

Don't you see how the company f#@ks up negoiations every time? It took years to finally get Section 13 Scheduling done and now the company throws another wrench in there. The TA'd Sect 13 is a very good section now that favors and protects the ASA pilots. Obviously the company wants to change it now with this PBS crap after years ago of not wanting PBS! So, who is stalling movement here?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

you're close....re-read the post and you'll see that I said THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!! drop the anger man,,its blinding you.

 

[ASARJMan]

you're close....re-read the post and you'll see that I said THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!! drop the anger man,,its blinding you.

No anger here ohplease. Just making the point that every time we get close to finishing this deal, the company throws something else out there, like PBS. What will it be next time?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[John Pennekamp]

OK Johnny lets review b/c apparently you missed some things.

#1 never make assumptions b/c you only make an a** out of yourself. Also, yes your post does seem hostile.
#2 Self explanatory
#3 Yes we are paid fee for departure. Let’s follow the money shall we. Pax pays DL – DL pays SKW Inc – SKW Inc cuts ASA – ASA pays you. Start at the top and work your way down please.
#4 OK lets follow your logic. We will blow through the DL agreed cost and hurt ASA. Do you know what/how much that will take?
#5 Simply put if we don’t meet agreed upon terms we can and will be replaced. If you don’t believe that then you are overly optimistic.
#6 Maybe not ALPA national but on previous post anything the ASA CNC/MEC says you were adamantly in favor of with little to no question.

Did I miss anything?

Your post really doesn't make much sense. This time do your homework before responding.

Once again, quote the agreement, not what you heard, or the logic you came up with from your "extensive" experience in the industry!

 

[ohplease!]

No anger here ohplease. Just making the point that every time we get close to finishing this deal, the company throws something else out there, like PBS. What will it be next time?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

I'll agree with you there (PBS). But, ALPA had PLENTY of room to move to tighten up the PBS or perhaps even get that request dropped and still make really good gains.

I don't know what it'll be next time. What will ALPA do next time? I don't know that either.

you and I are saying closer to the same thing than I think you're willing to admit....peer pressure is all I can figure.

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

Everyone Shut Up.

 

[ohplease!]

Everyone Shut Up.

LOL. thats funny, I don't care who you are.

 

[Sinca3]

Ok, I´m thinking for myself here.....

The only people you hurt by doing this are the pax. What part of that don't you understand. You write up every little thing you can find in ATL and leave late after mtc defers it thus arriving/leaving late from your outstation causing 50-70 pax to possibly missconnect ... Happy. What part of, These are the people that give you your paycheck, don't you understand.

Some will say no single engine taxi and burn the APU until at all txs at all cost. Well, fuel is a flow through cost to DL so you only hurt them by doing that.


Let the CNC/MEC do the job they were elected to do and get this done. You don't like the pace then let them know. I don't believe that they would condone such actions as I read on this thread.

Think For Yourself...

I agree 100% with your first 2 paragraphs!! That´s why I hate that the pax suffer. I also believe 100% that the more angry letters, reduced bookings on ASA operated flights, and fuel consumption increases that DAL sees will cause them to put pressure on ASA magmnt to get this done. Maybe even threaten them with the loss of the code share. This is the only weapon we have as a pilot group (union or non union) The sooner ASA pilots realize this the sooner we will have a contract

 

[atlcrjdriver]

S3, I'll agree with you that something has to be done to send a strong msg to mgmnt that we need to get this done and soon. However we will have to agree to disagree on how to do it. We should not use pax as pawns in our battle. We elected the CNC/MEC personel to represent us and push through a fair contract. In a means to put pressure on mgmnt they ask us to do informational picketing and vote to pass a stike authorization. Recently they opened the strike center to send another msg to mgmnt. Personally I don't believe that we will strike put the msg has been sent. We must do our jobs and let the CNC get the contract done.

 

[601Pilot]

The only people you hurt by doing this are the pax. What part of that don't you understand. You write up every little thing you can find in ATL and leave late after mtc defers it thus arriving/leaving late from your outstation causing 50-70 pax to possibly missconnect ... Happy. What part of, These are the people that give you your paycheck, don't you understand.

Some will say no single engine taxi and burn the APU until at all txs at all cost. Well, fuel is a flow through cost to DL so you only hurt them by doing that.

If you want to call out sick for every itch you have that is your business but then they simply call out/extend a poor reserve. So you really hurt your own fellow pilot ... Happy.

Let the CNC/MEC do the job they were elected to do and get this done. You don't like the pace then let them know. I don't believe that they would condone such actions as I read on this thread.

Think For Yourself...

Yes, this approach has worked so well for the past 4 years. I guess I'll do it my way and you can do it your way. I'm hoping we keep our D0 and A14 down around 25% like it has been so far this month. BL is blaming it on the runway closure, but the numbers were already around 25% before the closure. We will see how it turns out.

 

[Sinca3]

S3, I'll agree with you that something has to be done to send a strong msg to mgmnt that we need to get this done and soon. However we will have to agree to disagree on how to do it. We should not use pax as pawns in our battle. We elected the CNC/MEC personel to represent us and push through a fair contract. In a means to put pressure on mgmnt they ask us to do informational picketing and vote to pass a stike authorization. Recently they opened the strike center to send another msg to mgmnt. Personally I don't believe that we will strike put the msg has been sent. We must do our jobs and let the CNC get the contract done.

Doing it your way is like mgmnt saying they are going to trfr airplanes and then not doing it. Atleast they are doing what they say, even if after the contract is signed they return themk to ASA the threat was there. If we are pissed about something we have to show it. We have to threaten mgmnt at ASA into getting something done. The only way to show it is to stop going above and beyond.
I love my job...I hate the company I work for, and it could be the best place in the world to work....if and only if!!!

 

[ASADriver]

WR, why don't you just go apply at SKYW or even SWA. You have that 737 type dont you. What, one plane (701) went to SKYW. That's a decision SKYW/Delta makes. Guess ASA doesn't need that capacity in ATL. You think ASA management is beginning to fear for their jobs too. After all, if we shrink like you fear, then less need for as many managers, and people like you in the training department.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

It will be more than one plane. Skywest will still have the capacity in ATL, with or without ASA painted on the side of the airplane.

 

[ASADriver]

Us. And you training goons will be the first to go... back to the line. Management shill. Max pay to the last day!

Exactly how are we winning? You are blinded by your anger.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Exactly how are we winning? You are blinded by your anger.

You are blinded by your fat training department paycheck.

 

[ohplease!]

It will be more than one plane. Skywest will still have the capacity in ATL, with or without ASA painted on the side of the airplane.

It will be more than just one plane but, actually I believe the SkyW agreement with delta says ASA will do 80%of delta flying from ATL.

 

[junkjockey]

Everybody here pokes and prods at each others airline for their low pay and sh!tty work rules when every single one of you work for a sh!tty airline with wal-mart pay and prison work rules. Take a look at your own bottom of the barrel lifestyle before you bust up on someone elses.

 

[rightseatjocky]

I Want To Go Work For Skywest So I Can Fly 90 Seaters For 50 Seat Pay...... Notttttttt..

 

[ASADriver]

You are blinded by your fat training department paycheck.

I don't have a "fat training department paycheck". I have a good line pilot job. But now that you mention it, why is ALPA still fighting to keep that "fat training department paycheck". My understanding is that is one of the things holding this deal up. Why are we all paying to keep those "fat training department paychecks"?

 

[ReportCanoa]

It will be more than one plane. Skywest will still have the capacity in ATL, with or without ASA painted on the side of the airplane.

This is ASA. This is a crappy job. We'll be doing Atlanta a favor when this turd gets flushed.