ASA Occurence "system"

[7KCAB]

Wondering if an ASA crewmember could answer the following - you have 3 Naps in a row and you call in sick for the first one. If you are still sick for the second, is it 2 occurences or just one? The whole occurence system seems to be very mysterious. How do you know when you get one? Where is the system defined or is it? Where do you check how many you have?
Thanks in advance from a greenhorn.

 

[Plug]

Wondering if an ASA crewmember could answer the following - you have 3 Naps in a row and you call in sick for the first one. If you are still sick for the second, is it 2 occurences or just one? The whole occurence system seems to be very mysterious. How do you know when you get one? Where is the system defined or is it? Where do you check how many you have?
Thanks in advance from a greenhorn.

It is still one occurance. You have to return to work before recieving another one.

 

[79%N1]

Yea, and where is my bottle and my blankie.....because I'm a kindergardener!! I mean, come on! Were adult professional employees getting occurrances! Lame.......

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Better be careful though...I called in sick (I'm on reserve), then was told to call back the next day. I did call the next day, then for the next two after that (4 days total). Returning back to work I discovered that scheduling had given me 2 occurences, one for the first day then another for the next three days. All the days were in a row! It was their mistake and long story short ended up with only 1 for the 4 days. The moral of the story is, if you know you'll be out for a set number of days tell "scheduling" that then DON"T call back otherwise this could happen to you.

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Where do you check how many you have?

Ask either a Chief Pilot or the CP's secretary.

 

[7KCAB]

Do other airlines penalize pilots for calling in sick?

Thanks for the responses. Getting an occurence for calling in sick is ridiculous, especially if you have plenty of sick hours accrued - THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR, it would seem. Apperently they think we need to accure them at 2.75/month, but we can only use them so many at a time, even if you have 400+hours built up.

The occurence system simply fosters an environment of calling in sick when you want the day/days off if you don't have many occurences and then when you get too many, you fly sick.

Unbelievable.

So if you call in sick for the first nap, then don't show up for the second, will you get an occurence? You haven't returned to work, but you haven't told scheduling you're still sick.

Do any other airlines have a penalty system for calling in sick, other than lost pay if you don't have sick days?

 

[ASABound]

Let me add my two cents. I am currently an ASA crewmember and I am having to deal with this bull**** occurance system. The best advice I can give anyone is to keep good records. If you are legitimately (excuse the spelling if its not right) sick and have records of doctors visits, prescriptions, etc, then you would win any battle against the company concerning being away from work. I am not saying that it wouldn;t go to court or the department of labor but in the long run you would win or could sue the company. I currently have a sinus/ear infection and I am dealing with those idiots as we speak on missing work. In addition to your own MD and record keeping the FAR's 91 & 121 prohibit you from flying if you are ill. That is something that the ALPA Aeromedical office could deal with as well. Granted its alot of hoops to jump through and may require legal action but you would win against ASA. Hope this helps.

 

[TX_DFW]

I believe that the info on the new occourance system is posted somewhere on myasa along with the other chapters of the SP's that are not in the new revision.

 

[PCL_128]

Pinnacle has the same policy, but they stopped enforcing it some time ago. As ASABound said, there are serious legal consequences for the airline if they try to discipline a pilot for calling in sick.

 

[anon]

I wonder if the feds (Kosta and Turner) are aware of the ASA's attempt to coerce pilots into flying while sick because of this system.

There is no requirement, neither FAA nor ASA, that requires a pilot to go to a doctor when sick. If ASA is requiring it, I'm sure the medical insurer would have a field day with that.

If you're sick, don't fly. Let ASA call them occurences or whatever they want. If they ever try to discipline you or anything like that, take them to the FAA first and then to court. Additionally, the local television stations would have a lot of fun with that little tidbit of news.

Stay safe.

 

[sweptback]

There is no requirement, neither FAA nor ASA, that requires a pilot to go to a doctor when sick. If ASA is requiring it, I'm sure the medical insurer would have a field day with that.

Well, not to be the devil's advocate, but the contract does have a phrase that requires us to produce documentation verifying the illness upon request.

Now, I think the intent of this statement is clear... ie, they're not going to bother with it for your common cold, but rather for the guys that drop a month of naps because it only uses 40 hours of sick time. However, we all know the company's record on reinterpreting the contract. But hardball is hardball, and I agree that our health insurance provider and the FAA just might want to hear what's going on.

My personal opinion is that the policy is meant to keep the honest people honest, and not much more. I do not believe that the company would fire anybody over it because they know it would be a legal or PR nightmare unless it was a slam-dunk case (like a certain former CA who liked to nonrev while "sick").

It's an intimidation tactic. If you're sick, don't fly. If you're not sick, don't call in sick. If you're sick enough to go to a doctor, file FMLA paperwork and get the occurrence taken off your record.

 

[~~~^~~~]

True story. An ASA RJ Captain is in his boat fishing on his day off. As is common when fishing, this pilot is enjoying the malted beverage of his choice. The phone rings, he answers it and is junior manned for a trip with a two hour call out, but "get to the airport as soon as you can." He says, I can't fly, I'm out in the middle of a lake with a beer in my hand. They say tough, you get an occurrence for being unavailable for assignment and we already put this trip on you. He gets an occurrence and his sick bank gets whacked for the value of the trip. The kicker is that since he was under guarantee, he gets no pay for all the sick time that he just got taken from him.

Twice I have been called on my day off, told them I was simply not available and I have the occurrences to show for it. It absolutely sucks to be with your family enjoying one of your measly 11 to 12 days off several hours from the airport and to get whacked.

Sure, you say, "don't answer the phone" but sometimes your wife answers the phone before you have time to scream "Nooooooooooooo!" and dive across the living room like a scene out of the Matrix.

Pur next contract M U S T severely limit non voluntary junior manning and like Fed Ex, the Company should have to declare an emergency and pay 250% to rob us of our time. We are not slaves, we have lives out of work. A day off is not a day of reserve. This concept is a strike issue for this pilot.

 

[jehtplane]

True story. An ASA RJ Captain is in his boat fishing on his day off. As is common when fishing, this pilot is enjoying the malted beverage of his choice. The phone rings, he answers it and is junior manned for a trip with a two hour call out, but "get to the airport as soon as you can." He says, I can't fly, I'm out in the middle of a lake with a beer in my hand. They say tough, you get an occurrence for being unavailable for assignment and we already put this trip on you. He gets an occurrence and his sick bank gets whacked for the value of the trip. The kicker is that since he was under guarantee, he gets no pay for all the sick time that he just got taken from him.

Twice I have been called on my day off, told them I was simply not available and I have the occurrences to show for it. It absolutely sucks to be with your family enjoying one of your measly 11 to 12 days off several hours from the airport and to get whacked.

Sure, you say, "don't answer the phone" but sometimes your wife answers the phone before you have time to scream "Nooooooooooooo!" and dive across the living room like a scene out of the Matrix.

Pur next contract M U S T severely limit non voluntary junior manning and like Fed Ex, the Company should have to declare an emergency and pay 250% to rob us of our time. We are not slaves, we have lives out of work. A day off is not a day of reserve. This concept is a strike issue for this pilot.

I would have said ok and popped open another beer.

 

[IFlyFL410]

Ask either a Chief Pilot or the CP's secretary.

Ask Andrea (I think that is her name) in the ATL Sec.'s office. She's new and cool about that kind of stuff. I had her look mine up and she had no problem doing it.

 

[rjcap]

Well, not to be the devil's advocate, but the contract does have a phrase that requires us to produce documentation verifying the illness upon request.

Now, I think the intent of this statement is clear... ie, they're not going to bother with it for your common cold, but rather for the guys that drop a month of naps because it only uses 40 hours of sick time.


1st. The company contract language does not supersede Federal laws and guidelines on issues of privacy in the workplace. Especially medical history. Investigate the FMLA language.

2nd. Calling in sick for a month of naps will ding you 75 hours of sick time. They prorate it. It used to be that they would only charge you for the block time of the nap, not anymore. That changed per NDB among other things.

 

[328dude]

Let me add my two cents. I am currently an ASA crewmember and I am having to deal with this bull**** occurance system. The best advice I can give anyone is to keep good records. If you are legitimately (excuse the spelling if its not right) sick and have records of doctors visits, prescriptions, etc, then you would win any battle against the company concerning being away from work. I am not saying that it wouldn;t go to court or the department of labor but in the long run you would win or could sue the company. I currently have a sinus/ear infection and I am dealing with those idiots as we speak on missing work. In addition to your own MD and record keeping the FAR's 91 & 121 prohibit you from flying if you are ill. That is something that the ALPA Aeromedical office could deal with as well. Granted its alot of hoops to jump through and may require legal action but you would win against ASA. Hope this helps.

Why don't you just go out on FMLA. We have a lot of pilots that have taken that route at our airline.

 

[IFlyFL410]

True story. An ASA RJ Captain is in his boat fishing on his day off. As is common when fishing, this pilot is enjoying the malted beverage of his choice. The phone rings, he answers it and is junior manned for a trip with a two hour call out, but "get to the airport as soon as you can." He says, I can't fly, I'm out in the middle of a lake with a beer in my hand. They say tough, you get an occurrence for being unavailable for assignment and we already put this trip on you. He gets an occurrence and his sick bank gets whacked for the value of the trip. The kicker is that since he was under guarantee, he gets no pay for all the sick time that he just got taken from him.

Twice I have been called on my day off, told them I was simply not available and I have the occurrences to show for it. It absolutely sucks to be with your family enjoying one of your measly 11 to 12 days off several hours from the airport and to get whacked.

Sure, you say, "don't answer the phone" but sometimes your wife answers the phone before you have time to scream "Nooooooooooooo!" and dive across the living room like a scene out of the Matrix.

Pur next contract M U S T severely limit non voluntary junior manning and like Fed Ex, the Company should have to declare an emergency and pay 250% to rob us of our time. We are not slaves, we have lives out of work. A day off is not a day of reserve. This concept is a strike issue for this pilot.

Easy Solution.....First, don't give them your Home number, that should be a no brainer. Second, give them your cellphone number and just screen your calls. IT's a very simple process. It's served me well for several years now. And if you're on the lake and answer the phone like that, then you deserve the occurance for being an idiot. I believe this happened before scheduling was using the phone cards to disguise who they were, so I'm sure he saw the 404 area code. He had to have known who was calling his phone. They all have caller id's now.

 

[CheeseHead13]

Gotta love this!

I have been sitting on reserve all week without a call and I have my two days off coming up. So what do they do? The night before my days off they deadhead me somewhere so I can fly it back and get in at 10:30 at night. BS!

 

[erj-145mech]

I have been sitting on reserve all week without a call and I have my two days off coming up. So what do they do? The night before my days off they deadhead me somewhere so I can fly it back and get in at 10:30 at night. BS!

Well then, why don't you just show them and quit!!

For crying out loud, did you get hired to fly airplanes? Was it a normal duty day? Yes, its BS that you cry about having to do your job. What a fricken cry baby.

 

[79%N1]

Easy Solution.....First, don't give them your Home number, that should be a no brainer. Second, give them your cellphone number and just screen your calls. IT's a very simple process. It's served me well for several years now. And if you're on the lake and answer the phone like that, then you deserve the occurance for being an idiot. I believe this happened before scheduling was using the phone cards to disguise who they were, so I'm sure he saw the 404 area code. He had to have known who was calling his phone. They all have caller id's now.

IFLY.....I gotta disagree with you here. Even if you ARE dumb enough to answer your phone on an off day, if this P.O.S company thinks they can give us an occurance while we are off doing our own thing on our own time, that is B.S!!! We shouldnt have to worry about crap like that! If I'm off, I should be off.