ASA Negotiations

[ASARJMan]

If I were the president of ASA ALPA, I would make it clear how much I was being paid, ALPA pension benefits, etc, and the same for anyone else in the organization on the payroll. Also, whether or not I were flying, or if not, why it was impossible for us to do so.

That's known as far as the ALPA national president and officers. It's public information, go getya some! As far as ASA, they get a quarantee, but I don't know how many hours. You can call and they'll tell you, or go to the ALPA office. No one is hiding anything as it's all public information and available. You just have to go seek it yourself if you're that concerned.

STRIKE ASA!

 

[ASARJMan]

Hi Joey! Good to see you back. Done licking your wounds? lol

STRIKE ASA!

 

[COOPERVANE]

Accusations, what accusations?

I will post it again since you are misunderstanding. Asking a question in a condescending way usually elicits a negative response. Rightly so. This question HAS been asked that way in the past. I understand that.

But in my least condescending tone I would argue that asking about how elected officials spend their time while negotiations are in recess, is a VERY reasonable question. I do not think it is a loaded question. No need to call someone a coward for asking a resonable question. Smacks of union thuggery.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Cooper-

I was actually speaking of others that have posted to this thread. Also, I said acting like a coward. There is a difference in being versus behaving like one.

 

[doh]

Accusations, what accusations?

I will post it again since you are misunderstanding. Asking a question in a condescending way usually elicits a negative response. Rightly so. This question HAS been asked that way in the past. I understand that.

But in my least condescending tone I would argue that asking about how elected officials spend their time while negotiations are in recess, is a VERY reasonable question. I do not think it is a loaded question. No need to call someone a coward for asking a resonable question. Smacks of union thuggery.

As far as I saw (Comair), the CNC had to meet to break down cost of every one of management's proposals, then figure out what the holes they had purposely built into their propsals. After that they had to craft a response and break down the cost of each response to show the mediator and the company CNC. Trying to communicate with the line folks is also extremely difficult. You can't just hang your hat on one method of getting to your goals because you risk alienating your group, but at the same time you have to give some sense of where the process is going. That pretty much takes us up to about 60 hours a week. And then you have to try and hold your marriage together, see the kids, and finish the honey dos. Really, it would be great if line pilots could shadow these guys for a week. You would run screaming like little girls back to the comforts of the cockpit! Does that help at all?:beer:

Oh, and thick skin for all the criticism that comes your way from management and the line guys that don't understand how the process works. I wasn't on the CNC, but a friend of mine was and it aged him terribly.

 

[ASARJMan]

The Company and ALPA are set to continue mediated negotiations on February 5th & 6th in Washington, DC.
We look forward to getting back to negotiations and we will keep you informed of progress toward a new contract.
Scott

Awww now ain't that sweet of Scotty! Like we don't know the (lack of) progress!

STRIKE ASA!

 

[ifly4food]

Accusations, what accusations?

I will post it again since you are misunderstanding. Asking a question in a condescending way usually elicits a negative response. Rightly so. This question HAS been asked that way in the past. I understand that.

But in my least condescending tone I would argue that asking about how elected officials spend their time while negotiations are in recess, is a VERY reasonable question. I do not think it is a loaded question. No need to call someone a coward for asking a resonable question. Smacks of union thuggery.

Coopervane, "ASA" (Joe Merchant?), VeeOne, Crash Pad, ASA Drivel, others:

I'n not sure what you're trying to start nor accuse me and your other union volunteers of. I myself am not paid by ALPA, fly a regular line, and regularly give up my off days for union business. Occasionally, when business occurs on a day I'm working, I drop the trip, and am paid in accordance with the ALPA leave section of our contract (try reading it sometime). This is also true for all of the other elected reps.

The ALPA volunteers who are on full time leave as of today are as follows (this changes occasionally, as people are needed):

The MEC Chairman
The MEC Vice Chairman*
The SPC Chairman
The Family Awareness Chairman (part of the SPC)
The Family Awareness Co-Chairman (part of the SPC)
The Communications Chairman
The 4 members of the CNC

*The MEC Vice Chairman is also a national officer (B2 EVP) and thus some of his flight pay is picked up by National.

All of the full time leave volunteers except the CNC are paid according to the highest line their seniority would hold if they were flying the line, plus a factor (about 25%) to account for per diem, underblock, etc. They do not have "expense accounts" but are reimbursed for all expenses incurred, after accounting review.

The CNC are paid a minimum guarantee of 90 hours at the highest equipment their seniority could hold. They also do not have "expense accounts" but are reimbursed for expenses incurred.

Those of you who think that those on full time leave are sitting on a beach somewhere need to stop by the ALPA office (do you even know where it is?) on a business day and observe them. They are all there 8am to 5pm (or longer) 5 days a week (sometimes more) and are busy all day. This includes the CNC. Between negotiating sessions, they are studying the proposals, revising our proposals, studying other contracts, and cooresponding with the mediator and ALPA staffers. I assure you that they also are busy all day.

So as I said before, (crashpad) feel free to give up YOUR off days and come with me to the ALPA office. Of course, you will be unpaid like me. I will show you what your ALPA volunteers do, and you can decide for yourself.

W. Faruzzi

 

[Medeco]

That should give the nay sayers plenty of info about how the union volunteers are paid.

I am always amazed at the number of people who fall into the conspiracy trap, it doesnt seem to matter if we are talking about the company or the union.

It almost seems like a requirment to being a pilot. Similar to how many pilots are cheap, and know it-alls.

Medeco

 

[ASA]

The ALPA volunteers who are on full time leave as of today are as follows:

The MEC Chairman
The MEC Vice Chairman*
The SPC Chairman
The Family Awareness Chairman (part of the SPC)
The Family Awareness Co-Chairman (part of the SPC)
The Communications Chairman
The 4 members of the CNC

Those of you who think that those on full time leave are sitting on a beach somewhere need to stop by the ALPA office (do you even know where it is?) on a business day and observe them. They are all there 8am to 5pm (or longer) 5 days a week (sometimes more) and are busy all day. This includes the CNC. Between negotiating sessions, they are studying the proposals, revising our proposals, studying other contracts, and cooresponding with the mediator and ALPA staffers. I assure you that they also are busy all day.

I appreciate your honesty, and I have never had any problems with the volunteers, except that you are contributing to the beauracracy of the union.

As for the paid people, most of it is BS. An effective union leader could run the show while still flying the line part-time, with a few assistants doing the same. I've flown with union people. They talk for an hour and say about 20 seconds worth of substance. They will tell you stories about conversations between them and management, and you think, "This sounds like a high school girl argument."

A good leader would cut out all the BS, think like an adult, make deals with the management instead of fighting over ever little detail to the point that it makes no sense for management or pilots. Good God, how many man-hours have been spent over that stupid 3-naps in a row thing?

I know you will disagree with this. But please understand that 100 people working 9-5 everyday can still be a complete waste of time, while the guy next door is making a better product with 3 people working smart. ASA has not had a sharp, business-minded person in charge of the union as long as I've been here. If it did, you would watch, be amazed, and would understand how it could all be simpler and more effective.

 

[~~~^~~~]

They are working for us, doing work I would not care to do. They have a difficult and mostly thankless job trying to balance pilot expectations with reality with management.

My only comment is heartfelt "T H A N K Y O U!"

Besides ASA, they are senior to most of us. You want them back on the line? Its ALPA's contingency fund money, let them spend it trying to make ASA better, doesn't bother me a bit

 

[shamrock]

ASA has not had a sharp, business-minded person in charge of the union as long as I've been here. If it did, you would watch, be amazed, and would understand how it could all be simpler and more effective.

Change "Union" to "Company" and you'd have just as valid an argument, and because of that nothing will ever be "simpler" or "more effective".

ALPA members have every right to question their representatives, but I for one would love to see some of these questions and concerns directed at Management's actions once in a while. I'm much more concerned about the flow of money from the Company to a Law Firm that prides itself on it's work against Unions (yeah, they both really want to get this done! ) than I am with our CNC getting a 90 hour guarantee.

And why is it such a copout to tell someone who questions the perks and lifestyles of or representatives to talk to the representatives directly? They are the most qualified to answer, right? I'm guessing that some people just don't want to take the trouble to contact them or they have already had their questions answered (ASADriver) and just want to continue fanning the flames on an anonymous message board.

 

[PCL_128]

As for the paid people, most of it is BS. An effective union leader could run the show while still flying the line part-time, with a few assistants doing the same.

Have you ever been an elected ALPA Officer? If not, then how do you think you can possibly be qualified to say what you said above?

 

[ASARJMan]

A good leader would cut out all the BS, think like an adult, make deals with the management instead of fighting over ever little detail to the point that it makes no sense for management or pilots. Good God, how many man-hours have been spent over that stupid 3-naps in a row thing?

Obviously you're not a pilot here at ASA, or you'd understand the fight over 3 naps! Maybe you're just a management clown trying to get a rise outa the ASA pilots? Or is that you Joey, with a new screen name? Flamer!

STRIKE ASA!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Obviously you're not a pilot here at ASA, or you'd understand the fight over 3 naps! Maybe you're just a management clown trying to get a rise outa the ASA pilots? Or is that you Joey, with a new screen name? Flamer!

STRIKE ASA!

Sorry ASAWoman, it's not me. I understand the fight over 3 naps. Had Bob allowed Lynn to testify in that grievance, maybe we would have won it. She could have countered Nelson's testimony, but personality conflicts got in the way and we lost one that we shouldn't have. It's a shame that personal conflicts get in the way of good business decisions.....

 

[ASARJMan]

It's a shame that personal conflicts get in the way of good business decisions.....

Ain't it though huh Joey, and you ought to know about personal conflicts getting in the way. Finished lickin' your wounds and back for more eh?

Release us! Strike ASA!