ASA Negotiations...

["GO AROUND"]

Last week, representatives of ASA management spoke with the National Mediation Board (NMB), presumably to talk about getting back to the contract negotiations table. Shortly afterward, the NMB contacted our Contract Negotiating Committee to arrange a negotiations status conference. That meeting will be on Wednesday, August 30. The purpose of the status conference is to determine where each side is, if our respective positions have changed and if the gap has been narrowed enough to resume meditated negotiations in the future. The Board has stressed this meeting is not to be construed as the recommencement of negotiations.

Still Holding my breath!!!! Starting to see stars.. Hope this gets done soon...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Last week, representatives of ASA management spoke with the National Mediation Board (NMB), presumably to talk about getting back to the contract negotiations table. Shortly afterward, the NMB contacted our Contract Negotiating Committee to arrange a negotiations status conference. That meeting will be on Wednesday, August 30. The purpose of the status conference is to determine where each side is, if our respective positions have changed and if the gap has been narrowed enough to resume meditated negotiations in the future. The Board has stressed this meeting is not to be construed as the recommencement of negotiations.

Still Holding my breath!!!! Starting to see stars.. Hope this gets done soon...

Git-R-dun!

 

[goahead]

Let's see UPS, Fed Ex and now Airtran have all recently got a TA. Man I hope it's our time also. Hopefully both sides can give a little and get this done.

 

[letthebigdogeat]

Still Holding my breath!!!! Starting to see stars.. Hope this gets done soon...

Starting to see stars? You're only at that point, huh? Well you still have the fun stage ahead!

This "leadership" team is an absolute disgrace.

Trying my hardest to get on with another company...

 

[Toecutter]

Let's see UPS, Fed Ex and now Airtran have all recently got a TA. Man I hope it's our time also. Hopefully both sides can give a little and get this done.

Airtran TA??? TA ,what TA I haven't heard from NaTran.

 

[goahead]

Yeah my mistake I rushed to read that story it's the mechanics... my bad

 

[jstyle13]

Surely with the RFP coming up and the absolute rock bottom moral and performance here at ASA.....mgm't will realize we have to get something done soon on the contract to at least have a shot at moving in a positive direction. With the Skywest SAPA proposal out of the bag and the strong earnings numbers, I hope they realize the strong arm concessionary talk is a waste of time. Hopefully we can get something done this week at the table......<keeping my fingers crossed>

 

["GO AROUND"]

Starting to see stars? You're only at that point, huh? Well you still have the fun stage ahead!

This "leadership" team is an absolute disgrace.

Trying my hardest to get on with another company...

I think I've been through the fun stage many times before this one. I have taken a few breaths when I thought the company was actually wanting to get this done. LOL

Copy Dat!
and
Ditto!

on the latter stuff.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Surely with the RFP coming up and the absolute rock bottom moral and performance here at ASA.....mgm't will realize we have to get something done soon on the contract to at least have a shot at moving in a positive direction. With the Skywest SAPA proposal out of the bag and the strong earnings numbers, I hope they realize the strong arm concessionary talk is a waste of time. Hopefully we can get something done this week at the table......<keeping my fingers crossed>

I hope things can get restarted at the table this week. It is up to the company to show some movement to the mediator so the union can in turn show some.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Charlie wrote a nice "it's all ALPA's fault we don't have a contract" letter on FLICA.

DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT.

What a Tool!!!

"we didn't want the recess", then you should have been negotiating then!

I wonder if it would be going too far to write him and tell him to shove his letters up his Arse!!!!

 

[ASARJMan]

Charlie wrote a nice "it's all ALPA's fault we don't have a contract" letter on FLICA.

DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT.

What a Tool!!!

"we didn't want the recess", then you should have been negotiating then!

I wonder if it would be going too far to write him and tell him to shove his letters up his Arse!!!!

These clowns in ASA mgt continue to shoot themselves in the foot! What an untimely letter. Uh, I believe their last offer was a take-it-or-leave offer, and it was so pathetic we didn't take it. We countered, and they didn't, so ASA is the reason talks were recessed. CT is fulla sheeet! Are they really this stupid, or just love to piss us off? Guess this attitude is what we're headed for Wed. What a bunch of jerks!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[CTS]

This time might be a little different. More flying is up for grabs, they can't offer a bid for it if they don’t know there cost. They don't know their long term cost without a contract.

I hope ALPA plans to pull the Defined Benefit Plan off the table. If you think a pension is going to be there for you are crazy. I want to see much better matching and/or a super 401K.

Also, did you guys know that ASA Mgt rotates their jobs? No wonder nothing gets accomplished! This sounds like an idea out of a Masters Program from a professor that never worked a day in his or her life.

Rotating clowns, that’s funny!

 

[ReportCanoa]

Also, did you guys know that ASA Mgt rotates their jobs?

Most airlines do this.

 

[scott hall]

if our pilots would just settle for mesa contract we could get on with life. Trust me, thats the best you are going to get.

 

[ReportCanoa]

He's here! Put the 10 bucks on the company AMEX, did you?

 

[sweptback]

if our pilots would just settle for mesa contract we could get on with life. Trust me, thats the best you are going to get.

Greatest Flightinfo username ever.

 

[sweptback]

This time might be a little different. More flying is up for grabs, they can't offer a bid for it if they don’t know there cost. They don't know their long term cost without a contract.

I agree that this RFP might be what's needed to get the contract settled. However, it is not the pilots' fault that management is behind the 8-ball on this one.

I hope ALPA plans to pull the Defined Benefit Plan off the table. If you think a pension is going to be there for you are crazy. I want to see much better matching and/or a super 401K.

I would agree that the Defined Benefit plan may not be the most reasonable thing to ask for. However, the whole reason why the DB plan still exists on the proposal may be because ALPA expects to trade it away for a higher 401(k) match. This is all part of the give-and-take process.

 

[ASACAPT]

I guess you guys never read the ALPA proposal. It is not a defined benefit, it is a defined contribution. What ALPA is asking for is another "401(k)" account which the company pays into.

 

[sweptback]

I guess you guys never read the ALPA proposal. It is not a defined benefit, it is a defined contribution. What ALPA is asking for is another "401(k)" account which the company pays into.

You're right, I misspoke.

 

[outtahere]

Personally I would like to see the retention of the defined contribution plan. In this day and age you have to fight for all you can get for retirement. Also, I know there are alot of guys out there still dreaming of flying bigger equipment, but don't count on it. Make yourself a comfortable bed now, with the ability to retire at somepoint in your life, and if you can move on later great, but don't use that asumption in making your choice on a contract.

 

[~~~^~~~]

This time might be a little different. More flying is up for grabs, they can't offer a bid for it if they don’t know there cost.

Nah, they know the costs with reasonable certainty. An analysis was done in another post that indicated the difference in the open items in the contract is less, on a percentage basis, than I pay for my flight physicals. One or Two precent of revenue might be a number managent doesn't want to roll over on, but it is not a "deal breaker."

Currently, this is about bragging rights. The company is determined to beat ALPA and ALPA is determined to best the company. I think ALPA has the moral high ground, while the company has the upper hand because they can transfer flying to undermine our bargaining position.

We all should vote with our feet and try to get out of here (and away from anything with a Delta, United, US Air or Northwest, painted on it) when the hiring picks up next year. In the mean time, SkyWest has enough certainty about its costs to bid on flying. If they don't get more flying their costs will increase more, simply due to longevity.

The Delta RFP is going to be delayed since Delta at least has the good taste to wait a few weeks before beating up the Comair employees for meaningless concessions (which are too small to have any real effect on the Company's bottom line). I don't think Comair is going away and probably there will be growth at Comair once Delta gets its ducks in a row and can order airplanes. At a minimum Delta will use bankruptcy to dump a few 50's and there are 40 of ASA's airplanes included in Delta's bankruptcy.

I think the glory days at Republic and Mesa may be coming up on a pause.

So in other words, stand by for status quo. I see nothing moving until at least spring and probably a release next summer with a for real strike threat next fall. The eventual deal with be very close to where we are now with Pref Bidding, continued separate qualification for 50 and 70 flying, and pay rates within 5% of the numbers on the table now (and I mean either set of numbers, ALPA is only 10% higher than Mgmt, the difference is 5%) The crucial item is scope and candidly I would vote for either proposal being floated, if it included rock solid scope or one list. (Without scope, I will do everything in my power to support a strike that takes ASA and SkyWest out of the market)

When this contract is done, it will be more to stop attrition than anything else. We can't get 70 seat FO's to stay here now, obviously if their pay is cut, more will leave. Every Captain I know is either looking for another job, or already has a second job that they are growing so they can make an exit.

Oh yeah and remember how the Delta guys all promised to hire ASA pilots because we invited their furloughees over? Well, Delta will be hiring next year.

The fog is beginning to clear from the crystal ball.

 

[wms]

CT is trying to make us believe that ALPA is doing us wrong by not considering the company's pathetic proposals. In fact, ALPA is doing exactly what we want, telling the company to come to us with something reasonable or don't come to us at all. After the "informal" meetings the pilots made it clear that we did not want ALPA to meet with the company without a mediator, and ALPA has stuck to that. If the company says it's ALPA's fault that there has not been movement lately, they're wrong, it's the pilot's! The pilots of ASA don't want ALPA to move in a direction that doesn't produce favorable results, without a mediator present. The pilots have set the priorities, and ALPA is acting based on them.

The next time ALPA goes before a mediator I hope they make it clear the pilots of ASA expect a strike, and the sooner the better.

I thought SH and CT would have the spine to do the right thing and be advocates for the employees. I'm very disappointed that they also have sold out.

 

[crjskipper]

The ship is sinking and the rats have already jumped. The first 700s will be transfered in the next month, the last 900s will be going to SW. The ATRs are leaving next year and most likely wont be replaced. We will be 30 airplanes smaller by the end of 2007.

Good news - we wont have to furlough because everyone will be quitting first.

Why deal with union issues when you can just shift the issue to your non-union group.

Jump boys, jump!

 

[USCtrojan]

Nah, they know the costs with reasonable certainty. An analysis was done in another post that indicated the difference in the open items in the contract is less, on a percentage basis, than I pay for my flight physicals. One or Two precent of revenue might be a number managent doesn't want to roll over on, but it is not a "deal breaker."

Currently, this is about bragging rights. The company is determined to beat ALPA and ALPA is determined to best the company. I think ALPA has the moral high ground, while the company has the upper hand because they can transfer flying to undermine our bargaining position.

We all should vote with our feet and try to get out of here (and away from anything with a Delta, United, US Air or Northwest, painted on it) when the hiring picks up next year. In the mean time, SkyWest has enough certainty about its costs to bid on flying. If they don't get more flying their costs will increase more, simply due to longevity.

The Delta RFP is going to be delayed since Delta at least has the good taste to wait a few weeks before beating up the Comair employees for meaningless concessions (which are too small to have any real effect on the Company's bottom line). I don't think Comair is going away and probably there will be growth at Comair once Delta gets its ducks in a row and can order airplanes. At a minimum Delta will use bankruptcy to dump a few 50's and there are 40 of ASA's airplanes included in Delta's bankruptcy.

I think the glory days at Republic and Mesa may be coming up on a pause.

So in other words, stand by for status quo. I see nothing moving until at least spring and probably a release next summer with a for real strike threat next fall. The eventual deal with be very close to where we are now with Pref Bidding, continued separate qualification for 50 and 70 flying, and pay rates within 5% of the numbers on the table now (and I mean either set of numbers, ALPA is only 10% higher than Mgmt, the difference is 5%) The crucial item is scope and candidly I would vote for either proposal being floated, if it included rock solid scope or one list. (Without scope, I will do everything in my power to support a strike that takes ASA and SkyWest out of the market)

When this contract is done, it will be more to stop attrition than anything else. We can't get 70 seat FO's to stay here now, obviously if their pay is cut, more will leave. Every Captain I know is either looking for another job, or already has a second job that they are growing so they can make an exit.

Oh yeah and remember how the Delta guys all promised to hire ASA pilots because we invited their furloughees over? Well, Delta will be hiring next year.

The fog is beginning to clear from the crystal ball.

Ditto, Fins, great post as always. Thank you for your insight!

Trojan