ASA negotiations

[ohplease!]

Any word on how things went yesterday? (other than whats on VARS). What was ALPA's counter to ASA? Did we present any "anti Willey" language? (not kidding about this...that guy has GOT to GO!)

 

[Tomct]

Have not heard anything yet! I had a negotiator on my jumpseat a couple weeks ago and they can't wait! The way the company has been dragging their feet, they want to wait until March when the SEC filings come out and ASA has to post how much money they are really making! When that happens, WATCH OUT!! We are about to give mgmnt a "Sandpapered Fist!!" Booyaaaaaa!!

 

[Puck Mugger]

Any word on how things went yesterday? (other than whats on VARS). What was ALPA's counter to ASA? Did we present any "anti Willey" language? (not kidding about this...that guy has GOT to GO!)

There is a 4 page update addressing many of the issues that was sent out by email and is posted on our ALPA web page.

 

[L1011 Rules!]

Strike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tomct]

Atta Baby L1011, the company will "drop" an eggroll when we tell them to shove it! Bring on the Strike Vote Baby!!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Strike vote is too important to take unless managment goes back to it's old ways during the next sessions. If things come to a halt and the company stonewalls any more changes then a strike vote is the trump card we play. The company knows we are ready to take one and they should be trying to avoid it in these negotiations.

I heard from the negotiators that the company has already changed their tune on some things that they were opposed to earlier. Nothing spectacular but it is a change.

I'm waiting for the updates from the next 2 days. If there is progress in the scheduling section then things may be looking up. Seems that is the section that the CNC is going to stick with finishing for the time being and I agree with this thinking.

 

[~~~^~~~]

A strike vote is not really a trump card. The way this airline has operated they have to know that we are praying every night for our opportunity to make our voices heard. After all the last "Employee Engagement Survey" resulted in the statistic that only 8% of the employees trusted management. The Company expects our strike vote - they worked to earn it.

Now they are resorting to "taking hostages." First, all of us are hostage to the new schedules. They are horribly inefficient. Expect safety and training hostages to be on the horizon. Then, we (ALPA) will have to negotiate to get our hostages back. The true stories from our last contract negotiation were so extreeme that few would believe theat they are true, but suffice it to say one pilot was fired for going home to be with his dying parent when he finished his scheduled trip - the Company was intent on extending him and would not relent.

Its ugly and should be illegal, but organized labor does not have a fair fight any more and we are in a lousy market for negotiating a contract right now.

 

[=w=]

Again Fins offers his conspiracy theories. If someone gave you $100 cash you'd complain about it somehow.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Oh really, what part of my previous post is not true? Do a little fact check -W-

 

[spinproof]

Strike vote is too important to take unless managment goes back to it's old ways during the next sessions. If things come to a halt and the company stonewalls any more changes then a strike vote is the trump card we play. The company knows we are ready to take one and they should be trying to avoid it in these negotiations.

I heard from the negotiators that the company has already changed their tune on some things that they were opposed to earlier. Nothing spectacular but it is a change.

I'm waiting for the updates from the next 2 days. If there is progress in the scheduling section then things may be looking up. Seems that is the section that the CNC is going to stick with finishing for the time being and I agree with this thinking.

From everything I have seen and heard Comair Pilots seem to be headed for a "NO" vote on the latest LOA. That should help you guys with your negotiations. Hang in there!

 

[shamrock]

Just as an aside about the strike vote, everyone please make sure that ALPA has your correct contact info.

When the time comes (sooner rather than later, hopefully!) they'll want as close to 100% participation in a vote as possible so make sure you help them out. Don't miss out on the fun!

 

[atlcrashpad]

I just passed through CVG and saw an old Comair friend. From what he said, No vote is in. Comair guys need t vote NO. Hang tough. The company will spell "Doom and Gloom", but it is their ass too. They will blink. Hang tough.

 

[Ifly4money]

Pilots don't let pilots take paycuts!

You ASA guys give'm Heck!

CMR will do the same!

They can't outsource us all that fast!

 

[Comin-In-Hot]

I am a FNG here at ASA, but I figure I'd throw this in. What does mgmt. expect from the pilot group when they glorify all the profitability of mama Skywest with the RPM's vs. ASM's, how skywest is now considered by forbes to be a "best managed company", and "the most profitable airline you never heard of".

Skywest needs to take over ASA's mgmt. squad at the negotiations and protect their $.5 billion dollar investment. I live with a bunch of Skywest pilots who sit reserve, and they have it WAAAAYYYYY better then us reserve chumps here at ASA.

I hope a strike can be averted, but I am prepared to vote YES. Since I am new to this whole 121 world, I am wondering if ASA will SH(tcan all the 200 or so new pilots (and the $millions for all the training) who are still on probation if a strike goes down.

 

[IFlyFL410]

Latest CNC e-mail out a couple of hours ago says that it is going extremely slow down there in CHS. As exciting as "watching paint dry" is what they compared it to. So, apparently, not much progress is being made. BIG SURPRISE!!! It is complete BS that they boast about how good SKW is and how many PAX we've flown, the money we're making etc etc etc......and they want me to take a paycut!?!?!? I'm in the minority here that's on the 70 that they proposed the 8% paycut for. SCREW THEM. And this "profit sharing" scheme they put out yesterday.....thanks, but no thanks. At my payrate and at the 4% profit margin that they used as an example (which I assume is a good profit margin to make it look good to us) I would get a bonus around $400-500. I'll keep my premium pay each month and not a paycut, thank you very much. I'm not busting my ass for a $400 "tip" every 3 months. Over and Out.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I hear guys saying that it sucks to start over at the bottom somewhere else, and it does. For you really senior guys, I feel for you. I wouldn't want to start over after being at your level.

But for me.

This is my last regional. I REALLY would rather walk than take a cut. No chest beating , just the truth.

I hope B.L. reads these boards. The anger is growing

raise ticket prices!

STAY OUT THA BOXES!!!

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Have not heard anything yet! I had a negotiator on my jumpseat a couple weeks ago and they can't wait! The way the company has been dragging their feet, they want to wait until March when the SEC filings come out and ASA has to post how much money they are really making! When that happens, WATCH OUT!! We are about to give mgmnt a "Sandpapered Fist!!" Booyaaaaaa!!

Actually, if your talking about shutting ASA down, the only one who will get a "sandpaper fist", will be the front line employees. Management will just start over again somewhere else.

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireAMEN coppervane! That is how most of us feel. We have NOTHING to lose and the company has EVERYTHING!! WE are holding ALL of the marbles, NOT mgmnt! Stay Strong Folks!!

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

:angryfireAMEN coppervane! That is how most of us feel. We have NOTHING to lose and the company has EVERYTHING!! WE are holding ALL of the marbles, NOT mgmnt! Stay Strong Folks!!

It is this kind of irresponsible statement that hurts your cause Tomct. Some of us pilots do have a lot to lose. Losing a $100,000 per year job that works 12-15 days per month isn't "NOTHING". If that is your definition of "NOTHING", then you aren't living on the same planet. There are problems here, but it could be a lot worse and it is a lot worse at other carriers. If you want support from those of us who have a lot to lose, you had better stop throwing our job around like it doesn't matter.

 

[ohplease!]

Anything happen late that wasn't on VARS?

 

["GO AROUND"]

I hope a strike can be averted, but I am prepared to vote YES. Since I am new to this whole 121 world, I am wondering if ASA will SH(tcan all the 200 or so new pilots (and the $millions for all the training) who are still on probation if a strike goes down.

If a strike does happen. We all go out and we all come back. Members don't leave probies swinging in the wind. The company may and probably will make the threat that probationary pilots will be fired, but a threat is all it is.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Actually, if your talking about shutting ASA down, the only one who will get a "sandpaper fist", will be the front line employees. Management will just start over again somewhere else.

Well, the only valuable "front-line" employees are the flight crews. My job is not just flying the plane, it's catching everyone else's mistakes. And it is a FULL TIME JOB. I will get paid for my services, or I will vote to shut down ASA and walk away. I WILL NOT "Pay to Play". The rampers and whoever else can get a higher paying job elsewhere- like McDonalds.

As for management? Good news! I hear Domino's Pizza is hiring managers.

 

[shamrock]

This is my last regional. I REALLY would rather walk than take a cut. No chest beating, just the truth.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I won't say I have nothing to lose because that's not entirely true, but with the way things are going in this business the rewards are fast being eclipsed by the costs and compromises.

 

[e120pilot]

Tomct,

I have a hard time believing you have nothing to lose. I know for a fact you're looking for work elsewhere, but with no luck. Being a reserve SLC CR7 CA can't be that bad after all those years of commuting. I love how guys like you spend $10,000 for a job at ASA, get a quick upgrade, log tons of PIC time, but act like you've got the worse job in the world when you realize you can't get out of here. I didn't hear your battle cry when you were writing that big check to FSI. I've got no problem with people voicing their opinions of the company, but your chest thumping is getting ridiculous. The majority of pilots at ASA are fed up with negotiations, but I've only met a few that are spazzing out the way you are. It's people like you that are the reason this board has become such a joke. I know you're a sharp guy, try acting like it when you post on here.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

AVOICE-

I respect your situation and agree with you that you personally would stand to lose a lot. Unfortunately, you are in the minority in a majority rules striking situation. The best you can do is continue to voice your point of view to the MEC and negotiators. For the rest of us, many would rather strike and lose our jobs to pursue others than continue with this "cost box" foolishness. In fact, many of our pilots make more from their other jobs and only fly here for the flight bennies that are soon to be degraded.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Losing a $100,000 per year job that works 12-15 days per month isn't "NOTHING". If that is your definition of "NOTHING", then you aren't living on the same planet.

Well, I only get 10-12 days a month and make $35,000 per year.

So, yes we do live on different planets and that fits my definition of "NOTHING"

 

[puddlejumper101]

Tomct,

I have a hard time believing you have nothing to lose. I know for a fact you're looking for work elsewhere, but with no luck. Being a reserve SLC CR7 CA can't be that bad after all those years of commuting. I love how guys like you spend $10,000 for a job at ASA, get a quick upgrade, log tons of PIC time, but act like you've got the worse job in the world when you realize you can't get out of here. I didn't hear your battle cry when you were writing that big check to FSI. I've got no problem with people voicing their opinions of the company, but your chest thumping is getting ridiculous. The majority of pilots at ASA are fed up with negotiations, but I've only met a few that are spazzing out the way you are. It's people like you that are the reason this board has become such a joke. I know you're a sharp guy, try acting like it when you post on here.

amen to that...

 

[commuterpuke]

Like all of us I wanted the uniform, to fly a cool jet as quick as possible, to feel equal to my friends, have hot chicks look at you during boarding while you flip switches and look cool, and all that other stuff

 

[puddlejumper101]

I let my union speak for me...when they determine they want a strike vote...then I will strike...for now let those guys do their job. I commend the ALPA negotiators...because they have a job that must be grueling and extremely frustating. They are there for a reason though...and last I checked negotiations between management and union suck, have always sucked and will continue to suck no matter where you work. UPS is going through the same crap...every legacy has been down this road before...I will strike if it comes to it...especially if our negotiators tell us that nothing can be done...but for now let those guys do their job. From my cup half full theory we have made progress...it took the company three damn years to put out a proposal...its crap but guess what...its finally something to negotiate over. Management knew that we would never accept the garbage they proposed...I think they did it to piss us off...and to start negotiations...at least we are NEGOTIATING something...unless you work at Southwest...expect nothing less when it comes to negotiations.

 

[ASADriver]

:angryfireAMEN coppervane! That is how most of us feel. We have NOTHING to lose and the company has EVERYTHING!! WE are holding ALL of the marbles, NOT mgmnt! Stay Strong Folks!!

Speak for yourself! There are problems here, but it is better than many other places. I think Skywest is making some much needed improvements around here.