ASA Negotiations

[jetstream]

Maybe its time that ASA's management learned a very basic lesson of management. As a manager you are only as good as the people working for you. Take care of them and they will take care of the company and you. If you treat them poorly and don't deal with them in honesty and good faith you will destroy their moral. A company comprised of employees with low moral is in for a lot of trouble.

Every pilot I know at ASA is a dedicated, motivated professional and I regularly witness them going above and beyond to get the job done. However, these juvinile games that management has chosen to play in our negotations are rapidly destroying that motivation. These games may be of benefit to them in the short term but in the long run they are going to come back to bite them. I personally can't even comprehind how they live with themselves. The only thing I can think is that some of them have fallen into the same trap as many executives. Prostituting their integrity for money and power.

Its time for someone to be a leader and direct ASA's negotiating team to step up to the plate and start negotiating in good faith because a lot of pilots are to the point of being ready to strike and that would not be good for anyone whether you are the president or operate the lav cart.

 

[sleepy]

What games are the playing now? Scheduling games, grievance games, drafting games, payroll games, or all of the above?

 

[49W]

All of the above. Well said Jetstream!!! You hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

[FL990]

Lets say we live in an imaginary perfect world...and we had our current contract. Only in this world, the company could never stray from the original intention of the contract. They have to follow it to the "T". Do you think that the pilots would be happy...I'll even throw in a small pay raise to account for cost of living and lets raise the first year pay some...but just for argument sake, the rest is the same. Would this please a majority of the pilots. The reason I ask is because when you really look at it, it appears that deep down, most pilots aren't really unhappy with the contract...they are unhappy at the way that management is violating and changing there interpretation of the contract. If we could find a way to cut down on this, maybe it might fix a lot of the problems. What do you think?

 

[Ted Striker]

Lets say we live in an imaginary perfect world...and we had our current contract. Only in this world, the company could never stray from the original intention of the contract. They have to follow it to the "T". Do you think that the pilots would be happy...I'll even throw in a small pay raise to account for cost of living and lets raise the first year pay some...but just for argument sake, the rest is the same. Would this please a majority of the pilots. The reason I ask is because when you really look at it, it appears that deep down, most pilots aren't really unhappy with the contract...they are unhappy at the way that management is violating and changing there interpretation of the contract. If we could find a way to cut down on this, maybe it might fix a lot of the problems. What do you think?

No, most are unhappy with the lack of work rules and quality of life issues. It sure would help if management would at least follow the current contract, but it needs quite a bit of work.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Pilot Unity & Logo Lights

Here's an easy way for us to show management how unified we are...


STOP USING YOUR LOGO LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[601Pilot]

Lets say we live in an imaginary perfect world...and we had our current contract. Only in this world, the company could never stray from the original intention of the contract. They have to follow it to the "T". Do you think that the pilots would be happy...I'll even throw in a small pay raise to account for cost of living and lets raise the first year pay some...but just for argument sake, the rest is the same. Would this please a majority of the pilots. The reason I ask is because when you really look at it, it appears that deep down, most pilots aren't really unhappy with the contract...they are unhappy at the way that management is violating and changing there interpretation of the contract. If we could find a way to cut down on this, maybe it might fix a lot of the problems. What do you think?

Definitely not! We are severly lacking in trip/duty rigs, reserve status and scheduling, and pay. Those are my top three, but everyone has their own list. I don't know anyone who doesn't care about the first two, even the senior guys.

 

[atrdriver]

Lets say we live in an imaginary perfect world...and we had our current contract. Only in this world, the company could never stray from the original intention of the contract. They have to follow it to the "T". Do you think that the pilots would be happy...I'll even throw in a small pay raise to account for cost of living and lets raise the first year pay some...but just for argument sake, the rest is the same. Would this please a majority of the pilots. The reason I ask is because when you really look at it, it appears that deep down, most pilots aren't really unhappy with the contract...they are unhappy at the way that management is violating and changing there interpretation of the contract. If we could find a way to cut down on this, maybe it might fix a lot of the problems. What do you think?

There are certainly problems with out current contract, but yes, I believe that a lot of people would be happy if the company would just follow it and stop trying to come up with creative ways to $crew their crewmembers. We need several improvemenets, as stated above, but a good start on good morale would be following our current PWA.

 

[regionalcap]

Here's an easy way for us to show management how unified we are...


STOP USING YOUR LOGO LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, we are not using the logo lights anymore according to a company bulletin.

 

[shamrock]

Here's an easy way for us to show management how unified we are...


STOP USING YOUR LOGO LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know if you're serious (it's hard to guess the tone of posts on this board), but did you happen to see the bulletin on Flica that MX will be pulling and collaring the Logo light CBs to save the cost of (constantly) replacing the bulbs?

Edit:Oops, someone beat me to it!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Yes, that's why I posted it.

 

[FL990]

There are certainly problems with out current contract, but yes, I believe that a lot of people would be happy if the company would just follow it and stop trying to come up with creative ways to $crew their crewmembers. We need several improvemenets, as stated above, but a good start on good morale would be following our current PWA.

ATRdriver,

You understand my point...I am not suggesting that we don't need improvements. I am simply saying that the company could go along way with just following the agreement we currently have. I mean, come on, do contracts go obsolete as fast as computers...because when this thing was written, everyone was on cloud nine and what got everyone pissed off was when management started "re-interpreting" everything. That and also them stalling on the current negotiations...BUT, the root of our anger is not the current contract, it is managements disregard for the current contract...everything else just adds fuel to the fire.

Oh, and for what its worth, I don't think that they actually expect us to take a regressive contract. It's just part of negotiation...don't get me wrong, if we would take it, they would give it to us, but they don't actually expect it. It's an "offer/counter-offer" process. We offer progressive, they offer regressive...this just means that when we meet in the middle, we get what we have now...Which is essentially what they want.

 

[Lolikoka]

Logo Lights are Required by Company Procedure

Here's an easy way for us to show management how unified we are...


STOP USING YOUR LOGO LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before anyone jumps on the Logo Light bandwagon, be advised that Logo Lights are required for night operations by the POH (page 2-70). Willfully violating the POH could subject you to company discipline and/or a violation by the feds. It may be a long shot, but it's still a violation of the POH.

Fly the contract. Know it so well from diligent study that you will instantly recognize a violation by the company (scheduling) or the IP on call in Flight Control.

Also, all known discrepancies MUST be entered into the Aircraft Flight Discrepancy Log. SP 450. Don't cut the company any slack to get a plane back to ATL to get fixed there.

Aks a mechanic what happens if the paper compass correction card comes out of it's bracket and is lost. Last time I checked, they have to re-swing the compass if they can't dig a copy of the card for that N-number out of the files. Check the MEL, but I believe it's required.

Taxi at a safe speed. The POH says 15 knots (page 2-71). Since we don't have anything on the flight deck to tell us if we're exceeding 15 knots, I would be safe and taxi SLOWLY, to ensure compliance with the company guidance. Can't really translate 15 mph in my little car to the sight picture from the cockpit. Sorry if that backs things up in ATL or DFW - but we have to be safe and comply with company procedures as best we can.

High speed exits from the runway can be hazardous, especially with a transfer of control from the F/O to Captain if the F/O landed. Roll out a little long to ensure proper transfer of control and to exit the runway at a safe speed. Sorry if the plane behind you has to go-around - but we have to be safe.

The POH says to be at 180 knots on the downwind, but at DFW and ATL, ATC typically wants you at 210. However, the POH (page 4-64) says to be at 180 on the downwind for a visual approach, and provides no further guidance specifically for the "high speed" downwinds at DFW, ATL, MCO, etc. ATC may be unhappy with the traffic jam, but they cannot blame you for religiously following the written guidance provided by the company in the FAA approved manuals.

There are many other ways to properly operate your aircraft that will cause inconvenience for "the system" and/or the company. Too bad - they make the rules and we have to obey them.

Any other suggestions? Crunch time is coming. I'm getting new soles on my shoes so I have plenty of tread for the picket line.

 

[FL000]

Actually, we are not using the logo lights anymore according to a company bulletin.

Well that's the last operational difference between us and mainline, so bring on onelist!!!

 

[asarjfo]

Lets say we live in an imaginary perfect world...and we had our current contract. Only in this world, the company could never stray from the original intention of the contract. They have to follow it to the "T". Do you think that the pilots would be happy...I'll even throw in a small pay raise to account for cost of living and lets raise the first year pay some...but just for argument sake, the rest is the same. Would this please a majority of the pilots. The reason I ask is because when you really look at it, it appears that deep down, most pilots aren't really unhappy with the contract...they are unhappy at the way that management is violating and changing there interpretation of the contract. If we could find a way to cut down on this, maybe it might fix a lot of the problems. What do you think?

I think you sound more and more like a C.P. every time you make a post.

 

[Palerider957]

Morale has little to do with anything, and the company knows it. It would be nice to have good morale, but even with a cadre of pis.sed off employees--$$$ still rolls in.

If anything they don't want people too happy, if pilots and FA's are content, they won't ever leave! After five years of so you begin to cost the company a lot more than any new hire. In managements perfect world we would all keel over and die on our 5th. anniversary (preferably on our assigned day off).

There is ABSOLUTELY no motivation to negotiate with us. As for following the contract, why? Mangement can make quite a bit more money by forcing us to do things in violation of the PWA. What is our recourse?? A grieveance?? Good luck, after a couple hearings and 10 months, you might get an extra day off

Pilots are as easy to come by as FA's, we just costs a little more to train. Until we realize that our only source of power is in operating the aicrcraft TO THE LETTER of the law and POH, then we will just chase our own tales pretending to be of higher worth then we really are....IMHO.

 

[Palerider957]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before anyone jumps on the Logo Light bandwagon, be advised that Logo Lights are required for night operations by the POH (page 2-70). Willfully violating the POH could subject you to company discipline and/or a violation by the feds. It may be a long shot, but it's still a violation of the POH.

Fly the contract. Know it so well from diligent study that you will instantly recognize a violation by the company (scheduling) or the IP on call in Flight Control.

Also, all known discrepancies MUST be entered into the Aircraft Flight Discrepancy Log. SP 450. Don't cut the company any slack to get a plane back to ATL to get fixed there.

Aks a mechanic what happens if the paper compass correction card comes out of it's bracket and is lost. Last time I checked, they have to re-swing the compass if they can't dig a copy of the card for that N-number out of the files. Check the MEL, but I believe it's required.

Taxi at a safe speed. The POH says 15 knots (page 2-71). Since we don't have anything on the flight deck to tell us if we're exceeding 15 knots, I would be safe and taxi SLOWLY, to ensure compliance with the company guidance. Can't really translate 15 mph in my little car to the sight picture from the cockpit. Sorry if that backs things up in ATL or DFW - but we have to be safe and comply with company procedures as best we can.

High speed exits from the runway can be hazardous, especially with a transfer of control from the F/O to Captain if the F/O landed. Roll out a little long to ensure proper transfer of control and to exit the runway at a safe speed. Sorry if the plane behind you has to go-around - but we have to be safe.

The POH says to be at 180 knots on the downwind, but at DFW and ATL, ATC typically wants you at 210. However, the POH (page 4-64) says to be at 180 on the downwind for a visual approach, and provides no further guidance specifically for the "high speed" downwinds at DFW, ATL, MCO, etc. ATC may be unhappy with the traffic jam, but they cannot blame you for religiously following the written guidance provided by the company in the FAA approved manuals.

There are many other ways to properly operate your aircraft that will cause inconvenience for "the system" and/or the company. Too bad - they make the rules and we have to obey them.

Any other suggestions? Crunch time is coming. I'm getting new soles on my shoes so I have plenty of tread for the picket line.

Well said, and 100% correct.

 

[73belair]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before anyone jumps on the Logo Light bandwagon, be advised that Logo Lights are required for night operations by the POH (page 2-70). Willfully violating the POH could subject you to company discipline and/or a violation by the feds. It may be a long shot, but it's still a violation of the POH.

There is a manditory company memo out that says that MX is going to pull the breaker so that they will no longer be used to save time and money.

 

[601Pilot]

There is a manditory company memo out that says that MX is going to pull the breaker so that they will no longer be used to save time and money.

Yes, I just read that on Flica. In addition, maybe we can stop using these strobes and rotating beacons; I know these things are costing us money!
How about just using one pitot tube and static source per flight; sure wouldn't want anything to break around here!

 

[FL990]

Yes, I just read that on Flica. In addition, maybe we can stop using these strobes and rotating beacons; I know these things are costing us money!
How about just using one pitot tube and static source per flight; sure wouldn't want anything to break around here!

Don't give them any ideas....pretty soon they will get to something else in the plane that there are 2 of .....PILOTS...LOL