ASA negotiations update

[ASARJMan]

We all will get to vote on a TA in the near future. You can vote for how you feel, and I will vote the way I feel. And it has nothing to do with "chest-thumping". I support my MEC and Neg Comm. You get voted out, were a big supporter at one time, and now you're on your own agenda, that is, you and Joey. That's how your posts rae coming across. Deal with counterattacks as long as you post that way.

 

[John Pennekamp]

We all will get to vote on a TA in the near future. You can vote for how you feel, and I will vote the way I feel. And it has nothing to do with "chest-thumping". I support my MEC and Neg Comm. You get voted out, were a big supporter at one time, and now you're on your own agenda, that is, you and Joey. That's how your posts rae coming across. Deal with counterattacks as long as you post that way.

That was weak. The "attack anybody who doesn't march in lockstep" policy gives the union a bad name. And we all know you are their #1 attack dog. Those tactics don't work on me. I've seen them all. Don't try to use personal attacks to attack my reputation because I speak a truth you'd rather not hear.

It is not a black and white issue, where you're with the MEC or against the MEC. There are many shades of gray. I hope the MEC is listening and considers updating the plan.

I have not teamed up with Joey. I do not have my own agenda. I still support the MEC and CNC. I will vote my conscience on the TA when we get one. But I'd prefer to see a TA that meets my satisfaction, one I can vote yes for. One that includes hard core scope and minor pay improvements, pluse the already TA'd items.

As long as we keep shouting that we're settle for nothing less than everything we want, we're running head first into a brick wall. This will be a never ending struggle as we watch our airline dismantled around us. Look around. It is already happening.

I fail to see why the MEC thinks leaving the table without an industry leading contract in terms of pay and benefits is "caving in". We've already improved pay and QOL. That is not a loss, considering what we started with, and the industry we face.

 

[Tomct]

John, you can vote how you want and the rest of us will vote our way. I BET YA the majority of the group is on our side. "Come back in 3 years" what are you an idiot? They are making more money now than ever and you want to give them a pass and come back later....you are crazy!! Keep thinking this way though, JA loves it!

 

[John Pennekamp]

John, you can vote how you want and the rest of us will vote our way. I BET YA the majority of the group is on our side. "Come back in 3 years" what are you an idiot? They are making more money now than ever and you want to give them a pass and come back later....you are crazy!! Keep thinking this way though, JA loves it!

Which side is "our" side? Who says I'm not on "your" side? Who says there are only two sides? Why must anyone who speaks against the current position be branded and pushed to the fringe? I have the experience to back up my position... do you?

Negotiations aren't about what they're making or what you're entitled to. It's about what you have the negotiating capitol to get. The CNC chairman will tell you that one. What cards do we still have to ge more of that money? It's time for horse trading. We need to decide what we're willing to trade. We can't get it all, regardless of how much we'd like to. Here's a news flash for you... the negotiating committee has been asking the MEC for leeway to horse trade for months. They agree with this position.

This isn't pessimism... its realism.

 

[bacardi]

And by the way, maybe its time the MEC consider dropping its pay demands in exchange for scope binding our flying to Skywest Inc?

you are so right!!

 

[HoserASA]

Here's a news flash for you... the negotiating committee has been asking the MEC for leeway to horse trade for months. They agree with this position.

If true, thanks for helping to tank negotiations.

Hoser

 

[John Pennekamp]

If true, thanks for helping to tank negotiations.

Hoser

That's a good sound byte, but how about explaining a little further?

 

[HoserASA]

That's a good sound byte, but how about explaining a little further?

To me it sounds like you're revealing the inner thoughts of the negotiation comm, and maybe they didn't intend for you to publish these thoughts on a public message board. Perhaps they trusted you but you're putting it out anyway. It also, in my opinion, would allow the company to know what we're willing to give up. Not smart.

Hoser

 

[scarlet]

Why doesn't ALPA ask for a single carrier petition...ALPA says it is not in the best interest of our pilot group. I think it is, if you want your job. I know you talk big but go take a 100% paycut and see how it would feel. Lets form a single sen. list !!! ALPA did it for Mesa/Freedom they can do it for us !!!

 

[regionalcap]

Here's a news flash for you... the negotiating committee has been asking the MEC for leeway to horse trade for months. They agree with this position.

The discussions between the negotiating committe and the MEC do not need to be displayed on this message board. You know that people on the management side read this stuff.

 

[John Pennekamp]

To me it sounds like you're revealing the inner thoughts of the negotiation comm, and maybe they didn't intend for you to publish these thoughts on a public message board. Perhaps they trusted you but you're putting it out anyway. It also, in my opinion, would allow the company to know what we're willing to give up. Not smart.

Hoser

Well, perhaps if members of the CNC weren't running their mouths in the crew lounge and on the jumpseat, then guys like me wouldn't know these things? And I would hope that our CNC is being honest and forthright with us. We have a right to know what's going on, and to know that our reps are doing what we elected them for. They need to be sure they respond to the changing goals and needs of our pilot group, not hold fast to a strategy designed 5 years ago.

I fail to see what the big secret is anyhow. Do you truly believe it's not known to management that we're at the endgame of what each side can give up? The endgame is always settled by horse trading.

Nobody said anything about WHAT the MEC was willing to give up. ASARJMAN claims the MEC isn't willing to give anything up from our table position, and I believe him. I opined that perhaps they should focus on scope plus what's on the table instead of a huge pay raise with retro.

That's nothing that's going to "sink negotiations", unless you're still holding out for a huge -700 pay increase, Hoser. Let's have a show of hands of how many pilots think that's possible and practical at this point.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The discussions between the negotiating committe and the MEC do not need to be displayed on this message board. You know that people on the management side read this stuff.

Tell that to YP.

 

[regionalcap]

Telling fellow pilots in the crew lounge is one thing, but putting it on this board for people like scott hall to see is another. I am glad they are telling fellow pilots what is going on. We want to hear. I just don't think you in turn should put what they say on this board.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Telling fellow pilots in the crew lounge is one thing, but putting it on this board for people like scott hall to see is another. I am glad they are telling fellow pilots what is going on. We want to hear. I just don't think you in turn should put what they say on this board.

It's pretty naive to think Scott needs to come here to know what's going on. I bet he gets a good laugh when he reads that.

 

[Texx]

Isn't it funny how people like John P and Joey Merchant (voted out of ALPA positions) are now trying to subvert ALPA, and campaign for their own agendas?

Come, come now. You have been around long enough to know that there are AND have been several people to push their own agenda.

Some people forget who they are working for and put themselves before everyone else.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Come, come now. You have been around long enough to know that there are AND have been several people to push their own agenda.

Some people forget who they are working for and put themselves before everyone else.

Maybe that's exactly why certain former System Board members no longer work for the MEC?

 

[regionalcap]

It's pretty naive to think Scott needs to come here to know what's going on. I bet he gets a good laugh when he reads that.

You are saying I am naive? How about keeping those little comments to yourself next time. I am just saying some things shouldn't be given away on this board.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You are saying I am naive? How about keeping those little comments to yourself next time. I am just saying some things shouldn't be given away on this board.

What comments? About you being naive?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I agree with John. I think if a TA came around, most people would vote to approve it, even though it didn't have retro pay, etc. The "burn it down" attitude is stupid, and scary for people like me that actually want to keep my livelihood.

I think I'm a pretty average pilot at ASA, with average views, and I think that an industry leading contract is not in our own best interests. I just want a modest raise, with a commuter policy, and a few other QOL issues resolved. You know what, if we got that, it would be approved. Those of you who think you are in the majority are in for a surprise.

When the ALPA poll people called me, I too was surprised at the questions. Polling and statistics are FAR more about how the questions are asked, than how the people answer. With the right questions, you could make it sound as if Holocaust survivors supported Hitler. The questions that they asked gave no room for anything in the middle. Either you are for a strike, or against. There is no option for "I do not support a strike, but if we were to strike I would, in fact, do so." Either you are not going to vote to approve a TA, or you are. I wonder who makes up the questions? ALPA people, or the polling people?

Anyway, don't pay too much attention to those polls, as a statistically flawed poll means exactly, precisely nothing. If something isn't vetted properly, it doesn't matter how many people respond. Even if all 1700 pilots responded, it would mean nothing.

I'll get off of my soapbox now...

 

[doylehargraves]

why dont you guys forget retro pay and go for a higher rate? Tell them of all the millions you are saving them by not wanting retro pay but get a big boost in hourly rate.