ASA MGMT proposes CONCESSIONS

[ReportCanoa]

No chip. Just ironic that you guys get so upset over something you spit at years ago. Wasn't important then but it is now? Bunch a hypocrits if you ask me.

My point was that any pilot actually thinks they own any flying if kidding themselves.

As much as you'd like to think otherwise, DALPA could've had the -700's if they had wanted. At the time, they chose to negotiate differently. Please keep your opinions low-key, and don't rub it in their faces. Our flying could be the next to be outsourced. Sad but true.

 

[~~~^~~~]

As much as you'd like to think otherwise, DALPA could've had the -700's if they had wanted. At the time, they chose to negotiate differently. Please keep your opinions low-key, and don't rub it in their faces. Our flying could be the next to be outsourced. Sad but true.

Exactly - they sold the flying and it no longer "belongs" to them. It should be protected by the ALPA members who have been performing it. Unfortunately ALPA National has the view that no one's flying is to be protected and alter ego airlines are a good thing as long as they suit the union's short term goals.

 

["GO AROUND"]

As much as you'd like to think otherwise, DALPA could've had the -700's if they had wanted. At the time, they chose to negotiate differently. Please keep your opinions low-key, and don't rub it in their faces. Our flying could be the next to be outsourced. Sad but true.

This was my point earlier. They didn't want it then cause it was below them. But now they are willing to fly them for less than we do just to get them on property and try to renegotiate the rates later? Pretty pathetic! The rats can have this race, I'm out as soon as I can. Flying job or not.

 

[surplus1]

Fear not, once ASA has made its "concessions" your new found associates at SKYW will make theirs.

The company (SKYW) has the right to match the low bidder to keep its DCI flying. You can bet they will try.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nevermind - But I do not think ASA's pilots will accept concessions. I just don't see it happening.

 

[737 Pylt]

Nevermind - But I do not think ASA's pilots will accept concessions. I just don't see it happening.

Really?! Ask the CMR pilots if they would either?? You may not have a choice if it comes down to a vote! There is a lot of tough talk among the industry, but when it comes down to "walking the walk," we have shown (as pilots) we are our own worst enemy, when being forced out of this "lifestlye" we have become used to.
737

 

[~~~^~~~]

737:

ASA is a unique place. Comair and even Delta enjoyed a much better and more trusting relationship with management than ASA has. Other than a small group of super senior guys and management pilots, I don't see anyone who has anything to lose by shutting this place down. It isn't like we have retirement that we are trying to save, or a great quality of life.

ALPA is trying to nail us from one side and management is getting us on the other. Probably the best thing for ASA is for the pilots to stand together and do what it takes.

If there was a carrot, perhaps some of the junior guys would reconsider. But with seniority list stagnation I don't see anyone going for concessions. Remember the Comair guys thought they were buying some flying away from the other DCI carriers. There was some bait, but like most predators, taking the bait was a mistake.

Hopefully we will finally get to vote, soon, and start making plans to withdraw our services.

Surplus1 makes a good point with his Clint Eastwood quote.

 

[Going2Baja]

Take a look back at SW and WestAir. The company went away and SW melted them into their system. Looks to me like this is going to be an excellent opportunity for SW to try and break the union and add the system to theirs. No flame here - just a little history reminder from SW. My fingers are crossed for you ASA guys. I would however do your best to avoid a strike, as this is just what SW would like to see.

Good Luck - Baja.

 

[Tomct]

:uzi:What most people are forgetting is that these other carriers were not in ATL. WE OWN ATL. If we were to stike, Big D would be in DEEP SH2T! Try to replace 900 flights a day. Don't see it happening, especially with other regionals. There are not enough aircraft to make it happen. We hold all of the cards! This last offer needs to be set in BL @ss and Set Afire! This should Piss every ASA pilot right off. If you were on the fence before, you should definately be on our side of STRIKING NOW!! Show some spine. No One else has, We really have nothing to lose. This job and QOL SUCKS!! Only the bottom feeders will want to stay! Give me the Strike Vote NOW!!

73... Like fins said, WE have NOTHING to lose. It makes me laugh when mainline guys try to see what we are going through...Very few came from the regionals so they have no idea. We don't have "green slip trips," you know where you make double time. Real nice for your furlughee's! Go back to sleep and shut it!

FDJ2.... I heard it on many jumpseats. "I don't want my Mil buddy to have to fly an rj. It is beneath their qualifications! Please!

 

["GO AROUND"]

What ALPA or union carrier is gonna fly struck work? If it comes to that.

 

[Going2Baja]

Tomct you are correct - DL needs ASA or 'someone' to do their feeding. SW has in the past made deals with DL and UAL to thin other flights so they can cover the feeder flying until they can expand. Remember who OWNS the ASA a/c, gates, and routes. I think if ASA strikes that SW will have SW pilots fly the routes and that will be that. Look into the past to see the future (WestAir - UAL.) The writing is on the wall - good luck to you all!!

 

[Going2Baja]

What ALPA or union carrier is gonna fly struck work? If it comes to that.

SkyWest is Non-union....look out, here comes the Borg!

 

[Rogue5]

SkyWest is non-union presently, but that does not means they are scabs.

I don't see much likelyhood of ANY SkyWest pilots flying struck work.

Besides, your WestAir analogy is flawed: WestAir did not strike, United phased out their code-share with WestAir and began one with SkyWest. After WestAir stopped flying for UAL, the company shut down, much more like what has happened recently with ACA/Indy in ORD (without the FlyI period).

 

[Going2Baja]

SkyWest is non-union presently, but that does not means they are scabs.

I don't see much likelyhood of ANY SkyWest pilots flying struck work...

They aren't scabs - the pilots will fly what the company lets them. SW did exactly that when WestAir closed the doors. Some people called them scabs and WestAir was forgotten in a year. The old WestAir pilots were given interviews and went to the bttom of the list and were happy to have jobs. Now they are all senior RJ capts watching it happen all over again.

 

[737 Pylt]

737:

ASA is a unique place. Comair and even Delta enjoyed a much better and more trusting relationship with management than ASA has. Other than a small group of super senior guys and management pilots, I don't see anyone who has anything to lose by shutting this place down. It isn't like we have retirement that we are trying to save, or a great quality of life.

Fins:
I'm not disagreeing with you, matter of fact, same could be said around here as well!

ALPA is trying to nail us from one side and management is getting us on the other. Probably the best thing for ASA is for the pilots to stand together and do what it takes.

I agree again, but.....I still say, pilots will do what it takes to stay in this career...Don't agree with me, look at all the concessions that have taken place in this industry, and my pilot group is no different. As a NO voter, I have nothing to lose if this place shuts down. This lifestyle just isn't what it was when I got hired 7 years ago, and this job is no longer my plan "A"!

If there was a carrot, perhaps some of the junior guys would reconsider. But with seniority list stagnation I don't see anyone going for concessions. Remember the Comair guys thought they were buying some flying away from the other DCI carriers. There was some bait, but like most predators, taking the bait was a mistake.

Again, I agree with you here. At mainline, we are now looking at 15 year upgrades. The avg age of the pilots is 45....Unless there is growth, there will be no forward movement for many, many years to come. I am no more senior today than I was 5 years ago, its pathetic...

Hopefully we will finally get to vote, soon, and start making plans to withdraw our services.

Surplus1 makes a good point with his Clint Eastwood quote.

Go ahead, make my day (sorry, couldn't resist).
The problem I see is that EVERY group that has faced concessions, has taken them, why? I don't know. I guess people are afraid of starting over, whether it be at mainline or the commuters. From the DALPA forum, someone took a rough poll of the junior guys bailing from this POS TA! It looks like the bottom 2000 are willing to start over somewhere. My guess (and thats all it is) there might be a lot of movement in the bottom 1/3 of the seniority list with junior folks bailing!

73... Like fins said, WE have NOTHING to lose. It makes me laugh when mainline guys try to see what we are going through...Very few came from the regionals so they have no idea. We don't have "green slip trips," you know where you make double time. Real nice for your furlughee's! Go back to sleep and shut it!

Tomct:
We'll see after your vote, you might be right...
As far as very few guys coming from the regionals, you couldn't be more wrong! My new hire class had 30...The breakdown, 18 civilian (including me), 12 military. How about opening your nut drainer when you get a clue!
737

 

[L1011 Rules!]

No QOL improvement to industry standards....I vote to Strike! It is that simple!!!!! Pay is almost not an issue other than we will not accept a cut in pay! BL and and crew would absolutely benefit from a happy work group including more efficient scheduling...How much does it cost the company now with all the Crew SKD F*ck ups?????

 

[Tomct]

73plt...okay, so you had a few civilians in YOUR class. But what is the majority of Bid D.....MILITARY! I rest my case! This is the point that I was making with my post..."my military buddies are to good to fly an rj..." even though it is more state of the art than over half of your fleet! Either way, we are not going to get screwed on this one!! To many people have had enough of the Bull Sh1t!
Strike Vote Now!!

 

[Bako Cap]

Goingtobaja wrote;

They aren't scabs - the pilots will fly what the company lets them. SW did exactly that when WestAir closed the doors. Some people called them scabs and WestAir was forgotten in a year. The old WestAir pilots were given interviews and went to the bttom of the list and were happy to have jobs. Now they are all senior RJ capts watching it happen all over again.

Wrong again,

Being one of those pilots I can tell you that this is NOTHING like the old Westair situation. United cleaned Mesa from their list of code share partners and Westair was a wholy owned company of Mesa. So Westair went the way of the dodo and shut its doors. United didn't do this because SkyWest was cheaper (new hire Westair E120 FO's made a dollar less than new hire SkyWest FA's), but because Mesa SUCKED. Westair pilots were not given interviews because they were Westair pilots but because we applied to work for SkyWest. Being that we were generaly more qualified than flight instructors with 1000-100 a bunch of us were hired. ASA pilots have a sh1tty offer from management but still have jobs. I had a letter from Westair management stating that I was losing my job.

Saddly, a bunch of people don't know the meaning of "Scab." I do, and SkyWest pilots are not Scabs. What was offered to the ASA pilots is crap and I hope you folks take it to the line. You have more support from the SkyWest pilot group than you think. If I'm asked to fly struck work or be fired, I'll take fired EVERY day of the week.

Good luck

 

["GO AROUND"]

That's nice to hear Bako Cap. Hope you are not the minority. I have a few friends over there and they feel the same way.

Got both hands and feet out trying to stop the slide. I'm not going backwards in a new contract.

 

[MedFlyer]

Either way, we are not going to get screwed on this one!

I wouldn't go that far. Management can still screw you pretty easily. Let's say push comes to shove and you're on the verge of strike. ASA management will cave and probably give you enough so that the contract can pass. Then immediately you'll get a memo that says "Sorry, you are outside the cost box and SkyWest must remove aircraft from your fleet." Your planes are either A) transferred to the SKYW side or B) transferred to another regional (can you say Mesa?) or C) the planes whose leases are held by DL are returned and DL dumps them in the desert (DL has too many 50 seaters anyways). It's possible that over time DL and SkyWest together could shrink ASA away.

It's an ugly scene, but it's well within management's power.

 

[Super Monkey]

Hey ASA guys...

Why don't you use SkyW's own words when asked about whether or not we are going to merge with ASA?

"No, we are going to use a best practices approach."

Since we are also in contract or Policy manual negotiations, we should get together with your MEC and SAPA and combine our contracts with a Best Practices approach! So we can end or straighten out the whipsawing before it gets out of hand.

Just an idea...

 

[FDJ2]

Exactly - they sold the flying and it no longer "belongs" to them.

Nothing was ever sold, and we will negotiate with our company what will and what will not be outsourced as is our right.

BTW, who are you negotiating with, ASA or Skywest? Who's your true employer? How's the PID going? Have you filed it yet, if not why not?