ASA Mgmt Neg update... BARFFFF

[av8tor4239]

I just read the a$$wipe that magmt put out on flica about negotiations. I started dry heaving. Then I read what the concessionAIR pilots just voted in, and the dry heave wasnt dry anymore .

After reading this memo, the only thing I could think of was OHplease! sitting there drooling over his computer thinking how he could not wait to give it all up and show com... I mean ConcessionAir that the ASA pilot group is even more spineless than those pu$$ies in CVG.

Fu(k givebacks..... ASA is not comair, nor are we in the situation they are in... SO DONT COMPARE THIER SPINELESS ACTIONS TO OUR NEW CONTRACT!

 

[ohplease!]

I just read the a$$wipe that magmt put out on flica about negotiations. I started dry heaving. Then I read what the concessionAIR pilots just voted in, and the dry heave wasnt dry anymore .

After reading this memo, the only thing I could think of was OHplease! sitting there drooling over his computer thinking how he could not wait to give it all up and show com... I mean ConcessionAir that the ASA pilot group is even more spineless than those pu$$ies in CVG.

Fu(k givebacks..... ASA is not comair, nor are we in the situation they are in... SO DONT COMPARE THIER SPINELESS ACTIONS TO OUR NEW CONTRACT!

Do you mean this update? What part of this seems wrong to you? This is EXACTLY the same thing our CNC says on the ALPA website. You really are that dumb, aren't you?



Jan. 24, 2006 [FONT=OGNAFD+Arial,Bold,Arial]WRAP-UP: ASA AND ALPA FOCUS ON SECTIONS 13 AND 5; NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUE THIS WEEK [/FONT]
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ASA and ALPA negotiating teams completed six days of negotiations Jan. 11-13 and 16-18. The discussions concentrated on Sec. 13, Scheduling and Sec. 5, Traveling Expenses. Finance representatives from both groups met on Jan. 16 to discuss cost models and the financial framework of the Delta Connection Agreement.
ASA and ALPA resume negotiations this week in Washington, D.C. ASA is hopeful the negotiation session will include substantial progress rather than continued paper passing between the two parties.
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[ohplease!]

ASA Master Executive Council​

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Monday January 23rd, 2006
NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE​

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Negotiations continue to proceed at a glacial pace.
The majority of the day was spent with the parties meeting separately with the mediator discussing various sections presently in debate. Toward the end of the day, the Association presented Section 18 - Instructor Pilots and Section 8 - Deadhead. The Association maintained the incorporation of the current Letter of Agreement (LOA) 16 for Section 18. The Association also maintained current book in Section 8 - Deadhead.
Management presented its counter proposal for Section 5 - Traveling Expenses. In its last proposal in this section, the Association narrowed the issues to just two: hotel criteria and per diem. In their proposal, management failed to address the issue of per diem, and their hotel language consisted basically of complete company discretion.
These negotiations are proceeding at a snail’s pace and management continues to make baby steps in its proposals.
Negotiations will resume Tuesday in Washington, D.C.​

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1

Looks like the same thing the company put out to me....
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["GO AROUND"]

If the company would get someone there to negotiate rather than their C*cksucking lawyer maybe there would be progress. Same guy has been on every contract at ASA and has never finished one. They always send another lawyer to close the deal.

Just remember, they want things worse than the Comair concessions. We propose and they stick with their last crap proposal.

I'm waiting for the company to attack the CNC next for the slow pace. They said it in so many words this time, but they will never admit that it is their fault.

 

[twobits]

wait, are you talking about a bankrupt carrier's pilot group actions? Because, I thought that is what bankrupt carrier mgt's do is to get concessions from everybody (thus, ch.11 reorganization). The threat if they do not is liquidation or an 1113, not bad leverage. However, those CMR folks you talk about actually had the balls in '01 to fight for their contract. All these years, ASA has been cheaper (70 fo's made less than 50 fo's at comair, etc...) and strategic decisions were awarded because of that. Comair's contract is still fairly solid, just the rates are going to suck for 4+ years, since they are DCI average.

 

[PilotBTS1972]

av8tor4239, you are a dumba$$. I don't work for Comair, but be careful who you blame for ASA's contract issues. Their new rates are market, they are not bottom feeders. Blame Mesa and the G0Jet scabs for your problems.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Then why didn't they just come out and say that the Comair pilots don't support anyone but themselves. Not just spew rhetoric to the contrary. I got a letter from ol' JC and their MEC almost a year ago talking about the tremendous power of "Strength in Unity!"

And I quote, "As fellow aviators and union members, all of us at Comair are in this struggle with you. It is not idle talk for me to say that we have been in this position before and that it is the strength of unity of all of us as well as our national union that will help carry you through."

I even got a nice sticker that says "Comair pilots support ASA pilots in their negotiations". "It tells everyone that the pilots at Comair are behind you all the way." Only now all those stickers have Comair pilots X'ed out cause we all know what happened a few months after this and now.

I hold no grudge against Comair pilots for doing what they thought they had to do. I just disagree that they had to do it. Furthermore, don't rally around us and tell me one thing to my face and then turn around and do the opposite. That's what I will hold the grudge about. As JC said "all the way through turbulent times.", except when it benifits you or there is a so called gun held to your head. Guess the times got a little more than turbulent?

Remember twobits, the RFP from DAL came to us too and our managment wanted us to take concessions by extending our contract to get more aircraft and we didn't. They used the same threat that if we didn't yada yada yada and the airplanes went where they went. Our managment imposed concessions on us anyway by dragging our negotiations out but we still said no and negotiated for a better contract.

Comair pilots did what was best for Comair pilots after all the unity talk and did what they said they wouldn't. The pay freeze they took did nothing for them but lose any support and unity from the ASA pilots in the future. Seems a lot of people could see the inevitable but them. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say. The concessions they took now were coming regardless.

Just my twobits.

 

[surplus1]

Go Around,

I'm not making any excuses but do keep in mind that a year ago Delta was not bankrupt and Comair had not been dragged into bankruptcy.

If you had not been fortunate enough to be acquired before the bankruptcy you would be in the same boat that we found ourselves. It is OK for you to be angry if you want to but you also need to be realistic.

Just remember, it was Skywest that agreed to fly everything from 50-99 seats for the same pay. And where did SKYW get their 50 seat rates? Copying Comair.

In the new CMR contract our 50-seats rates are now less than XJT, SKYW and REP and the 700 rate is the same as SKYW and PSA. You can thank the SKYW pilots for setting that precedent.

In spite of the POS we had to accept, we still pay our 200 captains more that ASA does. ASA and SYW still pay new hires less than we do. The rest of your FO's are paid better than ours, but we still pay ours more than REP, PSA, TSA, PCL and MES.

Fortunately we were able to retain most of our work rules although we did lose some dead head pay and some per diem. As you know we also lost our retirement, which you have never had.

None of that is anything to be proud of. It is just the reality of what happens in bankruptcy. Be grateful that you lucked out of the bankruptcy box or you wouldn't be "negotiating" at all.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Then why didn't they just come out and say that the Comair pilots don't support anyone but themselves. Not just spew rhetoric to the contrary. I got a letter from ol' JC and their MEC almost a year ago talking about the tremendous power of "Strength in Unity!"

And I quote, "As fellow aviators and union members, all of us at Comair are in this struggle with you. It is not idle talk for me to say that we have been in this position before and that it is the strength of unity of all of us as well as our national union that will help carry you through."

I even got a nice sticker that says "Comair pilots support ASA pilots in their negotiations". "It tells everyone that the pilots at Comair are behind you all the way." Only now all those stickers have Comair pilots X'ed out cause we all know what happened a few months after this and now.

I hold no grudge against Comair pilots for doing what they thought they had to do. I just disagree that they had to do it. Furthermore, don't rally around us and tell me one thing to my face and then turn around and do the opposite. That's what I will hold the grudge about. As JC said "all the way through turbulent times.", except when it benifits you or there is a so called gun held to your head. Guess the times got a little more than turbulent?

Remember twobits, the RFP from DAL came to us too and our managment wanted us to take concessions by extending our contract to get more aircraft and we didn't. They used the same threat that if we didn't yada yada yada and the airplanes went where they went. Our managment imposed concessions on us anyway by dragging our negotiations out but we still said no and negotiated for a better contract.

Comair pilots did what was best for Comair pilots after all the unity talk and did what they said they wouldn't. The pay freeze they took did nothing for them but lose any support and unity from the ASA pilots in the future. Seems a lot of people could see the inevitable but them. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say. The concessions they took now were coming regardless.

Just my twobits.

You know what sucks about this industry? Pilots are always about unity...until Sh!$ hits the fan. Pilots love to eat their young. I certainly never bought Delta pilots sticking behind Comair and ASA pilots and never bought Comair pilots being behind ASA...why would they? Its ironic...we always say unity...but in the end its always every man for himself. Always has been...AA and TWA...senior guys mistreating junior guys...The senior 70 seat captain at Comair who can care less if Comair furloughs...or the senior ASA pilot who wants retirement at all costs but can care less if a first year guy is making 19.02 or 15.02...I have always thought the word unity in this industry was in quotation marks. Its the "unity until I get screwed philosophy" Sad but true.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

........comair........ SPINELESS

Look up "clueless" in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of an ASA pilot lecturing Comair on what it means to have a spine.

 

[SkyWASA]

Look up "clueless" in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of an ASA pilot lecturing Comair on what it means to have a spine.

Juan--Look up "spineless" in the dictionary and you'll see a Comair pilot who's forgetten all the ASA pilots who sat down and wrote out checks in support of your REAL pilots during your strike.

Skywasa

 

[jehtplane]

Juan--Look up "spineless" in the dictionary and you'll see a Comair pilot who's forgetten all the ASA pilots who sat down and wrote out checks in support of your REAL pilots during your strike.

Skywasa

Thank You!!!!!!!!!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Look up "clueless" in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of an ASA pilot lecturing Comair on what it means to have a spine.

You mean had a spine. Comair's was broken by Fred and DAL.

All the Comair guys that say they were holding up the bar until everyone else left them swinging in the wind. Well, ASA was never one of those airlines. We never took a concession to leave you guys hangin, some may have been imposed on us by managment with no negotiating. We were led to believe by your MEC and pilots that you had our back and then left us hangin with the pay freeze for airframes.

The bankruptcy concessions are a different matter that was inevitable. In the end ya'll probably did better than if it was imposed but we'll never know.

I know that ASA pilots won't take less than standard to get more DCI flying. We may not raise the bar but we are not going to bend over either. Our managment wants both and they can go pound sand.

The real question is what the mediator is going to do in March. He said he might park us, put us on administrative leave, close the case and let us settle it ourselves or release us. We don't know yet. He just wants to get this done and the company is still playing their games.

They keep crying and we keep telling them to stick it.

 

[sleepy]

Ford and Harrison, they have had ALPA's number for a long time.

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Juan--Look up "spineless" in the dictionary and you'll see a Comair pilot who's forgetten all the ASA pilots who sat down and wrote out checks in support of your REAL pilots during your strike.

Skywasa

Could not have said it better myself!!!! On the the money!

I want MY money back!

 

[twobits]

hmmm..... so, you are about to go on strike, but you want the money that you paid in previous assessments back. How serious are you about striking? Hence the problem.

 

[D'Angelo]

You guys whine more than an RJ with the old window wipers

 

["GO AROUND"]

You guys whine more than an RJ with the old window wipers

What's a window wiper? We have windshield wipers, but no window wipers. Putz! I guess I shouldn't expect much more from the likes of you D'.

And twobits, yes I want my money back from guys like D' for the express reason that we might go on strike. Support is a two way street and the Comair guys like him turned off at the last exit.

D' and guys like him are all about themselves but they tell you that they support you. But, they are sure to blame everyone else for their problems and why they did what they did. em! I need support and unity like that like I need a hole in the head.

 

[twobits]

you will be getting your money back from all of ALPA including D' soon enough. I understand ASA pilots are sick of current mgt. relations and contract talks. However, instead of words, ASA ALPA needs action IMHO.

 

["GO AROUND"]

The pilots are ready, just waiting to see what the mediator says on Mar. 3rd.

 

[twobits]

Good Luck! that will be a good time to stick it to them with the busy season approaching.

 

[Holy Shiite]

You guys whine more than an RJ with the old window wipers

Your ignorance is showing moron. You sign up to this forum just in time to bash the Comair pilots. Now you are shifting your slimey energy to try and bash the ASA Pilots. You are a management PUKE. Go crawl back under your rock asswipe. HS

 

[ReportCanoa]

Directly from ASA management:

"Comair pilots' acceptance of their contract revisions, supports the fact that the industry is driving regional carriers to adjust the way they do business"

This is a statement a small rodent may think is effective.

 

[D'Angelo]

What's a window wiper? We have windshield wipers, but no window wipers. Putz! I guess I shouldn't expect much more from the likes of you D'.

And twobits, yes I want my money back from guys like D' for the express reason that we might go on strike. Support is a two way street and the Comair guys like him turned off at the last exit.

D' and guys like him are all about themselves but they tell you that they support you. But, they are sure to blame everyone else for their problems and why they did what they did. F*ck em! I need support and unity like that like I need a hole in the head.

Window wipers, windshield wipers. You say tomato I say tomAto. Either way you get the idea. I had to take the last exit because this is 2006 not 2001. You need to stop living in the past my friends. Whats done is done. Now we must move on and look to the future. As the chicago cubs say. Theres always next season.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Window wipers, windshield wipers. You say tomato I say tomAto. Either way you get the idea.

Actually, they are windscreen wipers. Thank you for playing.

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireIf mgmnt wants to wait until March, FINE! When the SEC filings come out and we see how much ASA is making, Watch Out! They will have NOTHING to stand on with this paycut crap! The ASA pilot group is ready! Bring On the Strike Vote! JA will crap an eggroll and then some....! Maybe then he will see what an Ahole we have running the show around here!uke:

 

["GO AROUND"]

Alex, What is?
Front two glass=windshields. Two side glass= windows.

At least I turn on windshield and window heat on my before start flow.
Better turn on those window wipers Captain. Huh?!?!
Sorry, I don't know where OCD man came from.

 

[Texx]

1. are you talking about a bankrupt carrier's pilot group actions? Because, I thought that is what bankrupt carrier mgt's do is to get concessions from everybody (thus, ch.11 reorganization).
2. The threat if they do not is liquidation or an 1113, not bad leverage.
3. However, those CMR folks you talk about actually had the balls in '01 to fight for their contract.
4. All these years, ASA has been cheaper (70 fo's made less than 50 fo's at comair, etc...) and strategic decisions were awarded because of that.
5. Comair's contract is still fairly solid, just the rates are going to suck for 4+ years, since they are DCI average.

1. CMR was not BK, their parent company was. They are an assest.

2. Liquidation can only happened with the approval of the BK judge and DAL is a long way to getting to that. 1113, they haven't even gone thru DALs pilot contract yet. It would be a while.

3. I agree.

4. Apples and organges. Get the facts straight boy. ASA signed in 1998 and ammendable in 2002.

5. You better get some glasses buddy. It's more than rates.

 

[Tomct]

Twobits...the thing that you are forgetting, is that about 1-2 years ago they came to our pilot group at ASA and offered us more aircraft if we took a pay freeze. We told them to piss off and yet we STILL got the airplanes. Now you guys had a great contract and I was glad to send checks while you guys were on strike, but then you go and stab us in the back by taking pay freezes for new aircraft! Makes no sense! It is almost like you guys were saying that your 82 day strike meant nothing! We were behind you guys all the way up until that point! I'm sorry for what has happened to you guys, I wish you would have shut them DOWN!! Good Luck!