ASA MEC job seminar September, with Air, Inc.

[~~~^~~~]

Did ALPA screw this one up?? Absolutely. Should we have positioned ourselves much like the AMA and demanded that we have control over the entry requirements of our profession? You bet. However, that ship has sailed. We have to make do with the rules we live by.

Sadly enough, ASA is not, nor should it be, a career airline. One of my closest friends at this company (a 20+ year Captain) grabs me by the shoulders every time he sees me and says, "What are you still doing here? You owe it to yourself and to your family to find something else." He's right. You bash ALPA and villify the "rules of the game", but you fail to realize that ASA management does not want you around. You cost too much, plain and simple. Your experience and decision making skills are outweighed by your hourly rate.

ASA is the home you have chosen for yourself, and you knew the rules of the game when you made that choice. As far as I am concerned, the time has come for you to make peace with that choice. The fact that you chose to live here does not give you the right to attempt to block the emergency exits for the rest of us.

I agree with some of what you say. But you have to understand Joe's (and my) perspective. When I hired into ASA, ASA did 100% of Delta's "connection" flying in two major hubs & some NYC. The company was growing by feeding passengers to Delta using its own tickets, routes, marketing and finance. It could, and did, feed other major carriers. It had its own 100 seat jets on the property.

For a guy who liked to fly - ASA was flying. Our new President was telling us that the future was so bright at ASA that it was a career airline and Comair got a career airline contract, with pay, retirement and good benefits. It seemed like a good place to call home and earn six figures back when six figures was some real money.

ASA at times has been a stepping stone job. It has also been a pretty good job at other times. For Joe to break even going to the bottom of another airlines' list, it would take him 11 to 12 years to break even (unless that airline was UPS or FedEx). I made the jump and my lifetime earnings look like a E120 V1 cut profile with an unfeathered propeller.

It is the union's #1 job to protect Joe's job.

It is harsh to tell any good pilot that his "skills and experience are outweighed by his hourly rate." People trust on that "skill and experience."

In medicine the State Boards have increased standards and continue to do so. If the pilots wanted to make an ATP the de-facto standard for new hire entry (I think that was the idea back in the day - I had to have it before even ASA would interview me) it could be done. My wife has to jump through hoops she never did before because almost every year the State Board (which is a private business) comes up with something new they require everyone to accomplish. It could be done, we (the members of ALPA) just need to push for it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree with some of what you say. But you have to understand Joe's (and my) perspective. When I hired into ASA, ASA did 100% of Delta's "connection" flying in two major hubs & some NYC. The company was growing by feeding passengers to Delta using its own tickets, routes, marketing and finance. It could, and did, feed other major carriers. It had its own 100 seat jets on the property.

For a guy who liked to fly - ASA was flying. Our new President was telling us that the future was so bright at ASA that it was a career airline and Comair got a career airline contract, with pay, retirement and good benefits. It seemed like a good place to call home and earn six figures back when six figures was some real money.

ASA at times has been a stepping stone job. It has also been a pretty good job at other times. For Joe to break even going to the bottom of another airlines' list, it would take him 11 to 12 years to break even (unless that airline was UPS or FedEx). I made the jump and my lifetime earnings look like a E120 V1 cut profile with an unfeathered propeller.

It is the union's #1 job to protect Joe's job.

It is harsh to tell any good pilot that his "skills and experience are outweighed by his hourly rate." People trust on that "skill and experience."

In medicine the State Boards have increased standards and continue to do so. If the pilots wanted to make an ATP the de-facto standard for new hire entry (I think that was the idea back in the day - I had to have it before even ASA would interview me) it could be done. My wife has to jump through hoops she never did before because almost every year the State Board (which is a private business) comes up with something new they require everyone to accomplish. It could be done, we (the members of ALPA) just need to push for it.

Well said Fins.... how are you enjoying things so far?

 

[VeeOne]

Honestly, I am not sure how I feel about this job seminar. In one hand, I feel like I am being slapped in the face by ALPA, and on the other, I am looking at it as a resource and an opportunity. It should be up to me to decide wheather I go or stay. ALPA is trying to tell me that I should go, but won't provide me the opportunity to vote on a company proposal before I do, which may make it a fairly decent place to stay?

Truth is I was very shaky regarding our elected reps, but I have come to respect and downright like many of them. However, I'm still frustrated by the current situation and much of the blame rests on politics. I am thinking this is quite simple, really- see what happens over the next month or two and then, depending on the outcome (SkyWest vote), put on a road show and put this thing up for a vote. It's rediculous to keep waiting for a release, all the while uttering....it will be the next meeting, the next meeting, the next meeting, the next meeting, the next meeting.............Tomlin seems to understand that a release may not be obtainable, so where is the plan B? Or is the mass attrition and career expo it?

I can accept much of what the company proposes with binding scope and job protection within SkyWest (given the current political climate). The pay sucks, but something is better than nothing. The scheduling is ok, and much better than we have now, as long as there is no PBS, BS. And as for the 9 mil- 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Hey Fins, hate to hear that you left us, but certainly understand why. Hopefully the pasture is greener and you get to enjoy the fruits of your sacrifice as things progress with your new job. Just don't forget about your fellow pilots down here in the regional world, and don't forget your roots! Best of luck....

 

[XJohXJ]

ALPA is not telling you that you should leave your airline. ALPA is simply saying "ASA's management is refusing to respect their workers, and the current political environment (or in Mesaba's case, judicial environment) is 100% opposed to encouraging any real solutions. Therefore, if you would like to go to greener pastures, ALPA has the resources to assist you, if you'd like.

A lot of working pilots lack the time or energy to actively seek upward employment. Sometimes they could just use a little nudge to get them going. At Mesaba, many Captains hadn't filled out their "interview" logbooks in months or even years. Along came a job fair, and guys woke up and got motivated. ALPA is doing you a huge favor. They are giving you your very own personal job fair, where employers are coming to hire ASA pilots, who they know to be a highly skilled group. You don't need to go to the job fair, if you don't want to.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

It is harsh to tell any good pilot that his "skills and experience are outweighed by his hourly rate." People trust on that "skill and experience."

It's not my opinion. It is the opinion of the leadership at ASA. After 5 years, you cost more than you are worth in their eyes.

 

[~~~^~~~]

It's not my opinion. It is the opinion of the leadership at ASA. After 5 years, you cost more than you are worth in their eyes.

I know. The first time I heard Bryan LaBreque tell us his 5 year and out plan for pilots I could not believe what I was hearing. He also said "safety is a given."

Of course, neither he, nor anyone like him will be on the jumpseat when you are performing a CATII at crosswind limits, or dealing with a deferral pushing 15:00 of duty, or simply flying a non-precision with a 300 hour pilot on the third continuous duty overnight.\

As a line pilot, you know how often the decisions you make impact safety. It is a real shame that realization is disappearing amongst the rest of the "team."

I'm glad ALPA is holding the job seminar. There is good information out there when folks work together. I don't think it is an indicator of a dark conspiracy, just an opportunity to get together and pull resources.

These airline interviews at some level are all "beauty contests." An interview is a check ride. The better prepared you are, the better you look. If ALPA can save you a few hundred bucks on prep, why not? Heck, see if you can talk ALPA into giving away a couple 737 type ratings.

 

[Speedtape]

Exactly FishandFly....see we agree more than you think...... The problem is we (ALPA/airline pilots) are not a "united workforce"..... If we were we wouldn't be competing with each other for flying.... Just think what we could do if we were truly "united"....

The fact is, the Skywest pilots have it better than most union regionals, and we are not a unified workforce..... Time for ALPA to get with the times....

Time for you to fill out that SkyWest application! Afterall, you don't need ALPA!

 

[Speedtape]

I know. The first time I heard Bryan LaBreque tell us his 5 year and out plan for pilots I could not believe what I was hearing. He also said "safety is a given."

Of course, neither he, nor anyone like him will be on the jumpseat when you are performing a CATII at crosswind limits, or dealing with a deferral pushing 15:00 of duty, or simply flying a non-precision with a 300 hour pilot on the third continuous duty overnight.\

As a line pilot, you know how often the decisions you make impact safety. It is a real shame that realization is disappearing amongst the rest of the "team."

I'm glad ALPA is holding the job seminar. There is good information out there when folks work together. I don't think it is an indicator of a dark conspiracy, just an opportunity to get together and pull resources.

These airline interviews at some level are all "beauty contests." An interview is a check ride. The better prepared you are, the better you look. If ALPA can save you a few hundred bucks on prep, why not? Heck, see if you can talk ALPA into giving away a couple 737 type ratings.

Fins,

Think about this! Who is losing their jobs at ASA? It's all those unprotected people in the G.O. Soon, the leadership team will be leading nothing!

They have already lost the pilots, flight attendants, and little do they know, the mechanics! Hey, but in every weekly message, they appreciate the job that we do everyday!

These folks are only #1 at one thing; running a company into the ground! Otherwise, they are only #20 because: (drum roll please) There is no #21, yet!

 

[Speedtape]

In this environment, you don't really need ALPA to help you find another job.... there are plenty out there.....

The proverbial door hasn't slapped you in the arse yet, has it? Maybe, you can ride off in the sunset with the last ATR!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Maybe it's time to oust BL. He's doing a job that any 1st yr. Harvard business school grad could do, and he cost too much! I think that might have been JA's line of reasoning when Liesure suit Larry's (RR) job went away, and he was replaced by a 5yr CPA at SKW (CC).

ASA MEC, next negotiation point that out to BL and watch him squirm. ;-)