ASA MEC Bonus Disbursement

[JoeMerchant]

The problem stems from the fact that people thought they were going to get "retro pay"..... that is seldom the case and it usually ends up being a "signing bonus".... they are two very different animals.

We got a signing bonus.... not retro pay.....

There is one problem with using the date of the TA as the cutoff however. There is no agreement until the agreement is signed. IF you use the date of the TA as the cutoff, then you will be paying some former employees and not others.... that will open ALPA up to a legal challenge....

IMO, you either have to use the DOS as the cutoff, or you can include everyone who was here during negotiations.... Including some former employees, but not others is a slippery slope...

 

[av8er2]

OK - enough!

Pay is earned when the work is performed. Retro is short for retroactive.

If someone worked at ASA and earned pay, then retro pay is theirs. How is this "greedy, stupid, hatred," or "stealing?" Somebody explain the ethics of this name calling.

In law there is another concept called "standing." It is my guess that prior employees lack the standing to enforce a claim to a "signing bonus." So this is more mental masturbation than anything else. But, being a guy who likes mental masturbation (as evidenced by my near Generalissimo status) I'm very curious the basis for your ideas of "fair."

Google "retro pay" and you will find that former employees, retirees, and dead folks all get "retro pay." This is probably the exact reason for calling this a "signing bonus" as those who are not on the list will not be around for ratification.

I think everyone who has moved on is pleased that ASA got an offer they can consider. However, look at new hire pay at the legacies. You think your pay stinks? Dare I admit - adjusted for inflation, my checks are less than my ASA EMB120 FO pay back in 1999. Throw us a Biscoff.
That's what I'm thinking - anyone care to explain the allegation of stealing when there is nothing taken and no intent?

Good point.

If ASA is calling it a signing bonus, yes that may be different. I think what bothers a lot of pilots that have left is the fact that it was lost income. They actually earned it. But due to bad mgt, poor law, and a weak union the money is gone.

 

[goahead]

Good point.

If ASA is calling it a signing bonus, yes that may be different. I think what bothers a lot of pilots that have left is the fact that it was lost income. They actually earned it. But due to bad mgt, poor law, and a weak union the money is gone.

It's a signing bonus (per ALPA).

Are you at a better place than ASA???? Then shut your mouth and get on with your life, your the one that chose to leave and now you have no ties AT ALL to this company.

I'd leave tomorrow even if it meant me losing 10 grand after taxes who cares, BIG PICTURE.

By the way this had been discussed over the past three years or so, you knew when you left.

 

[scarlet]

How do you please the majority?

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I don't see why people have to bitch about who gets what so much. I think the better question to ask is $13.5 million enough of a shot to the company to keep them from dragging negotiations out another 5 yrs next time around?

 

[FDJ2]

Google "retro pay" and you will find that former employees, retirees, and dead folks all get "retro pay." This is probably the exact reason for calling this a "signing bonus" as those who are not on the list will not be around for ratification.

Is this "signing bonus" really big enough to be "retro pay" for 5+ years of negotiations? Probably not.

It would be more accurate to call this a signing bonus, because that's what it truly is. If it were retro pay, new TA'd pay rates for the last 5 years would be published and the company would cough up enough cash to make up the difference between what was paid and what was earned over the last 5+ years.

Congratulations on a TA, it's been a long time coming. I haven't read it, so I can't possibly comment on its merits, my hope is that it will satisfy the needs of the ASA pilots, if not vote it down. Good luck, and I support whatever decision you make.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't see why people have to bitch about who gets what so much. I think the better question to ask is $13.5 million enough of a shot to the company to keep them from dragging negotiations out another 5 yrs next time around?

That is simple..... NO!

They saved more than 2.7 million per year......

Holding out for "retro" is usually a losing game......

 

[E120ASA]

They offer you some money and not 100% retro and loook at all the people that are ********************-ing on themselves for the quick money and are not worried about the rest of the contract. SH got ya.... you guys are easy.....

 

[BigPappa]

Your ratings say CL-65=600, 601. That is in fact not true. The Challenger 600, 601, 604 are a different type.

Ok back on topic!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Having left ASA recently I expected no compensation from getting an amended contract. However, I did participate in picketing, union meetings, and other legal tactics on the line to help my CNC get the TA that they have achieved. All I ask from those that are still at ASA is a little respect for my efforts towards securing a TA instead of being accused of theft and bitching. I do believe that my efforts, as well as those of my colleagues that had the determination to support the CNC, helped to get the TA that offers the signing bonus that I won't see a dime from...but I digress.

Congrats to the ASA CNC for getting it done in spite of an attempted coup (LJ/JB) and less than stellar support from the rank and file. (in my humble opinion)

 

[79%N1]

Absolutely, and speaking for myself, I appreciate all your efforts in your time here. That said, as far as the signing bonus, it is for those left at ASA. Anybody who is lucky enough to have moved on to a Major will make more in year 2 or 3 than the topped out 70 Captain at ASA. Everybody who left knew that, and sprinted out of ASA as fast as possible for much greener pastures. Don't look back and watch the pilots here fight over the crumbs left over.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

To all those that fought the good fight while you were here, thanks from all of us still here and benefiting from your good work.

Now, you received your signing bonus in another form. It was the motivation provided by the system to get out. Now, stop talking about the woman you USED to bang, the aircraft you used to fly, and get on with your life.

Again, I put my trust in the CNC and MEC to do what is fair and in our best interests. I will contribute by VOTING!

Dick Gozinya

 

[scarlet]

I think the 5-7 dollars a day, for every day you were there since Sept 15,2002: Is REALLy fair. We were all in it together!

 

[79%N1]

I have to agree. I shouldn't matter how long you were here before this contract expired. It is for the waiting for this contract since it expired. IMHO

 

[wms]

I stuck around specifically to get the signing bonus. Anyone who left could've done the same. When the check clears I'll kick my job search efforts up a notch and have a little extra cash to help in the first year. In the long run, anyone who has left will still make more than those who make ASA a career.

 

[wms]

I think the 5-7 dollars a day, for every day you were there since Sept 15,2002: Is REALLy fair. We were all in it together!

And how much should those who spent 5 years sand-bagging the effort get. If they're still here they'll get their fair share in spite of trying their best to harm the pilot group and hinder the CNC's efforts for their own agenda.

 

[~~~^~~~]

WMS:

In all fairness, the voices of dissent helped shape and improve the CNC's negotiating positions. After all, no one seemed to care about scope at all until the issue was raised by the peanut gallery.

I agree that going after the MEC positions were counter productive on one hand, but on the other hand the MEC / CNC adopted the best ideas from the dissenters' platform with improved results for the pilots.

~~~^~~~

 

[maxcackel]

I don't understand when people say they stayed for the retro or bonus and are going to leave asap,and Ive heard this from peaple for a couple of years. Let's just use today's airline contract's, top pay is 150-175k which should be much higher in 20 years. Now you stay for a 10-12k bounus and you make 80k a year. If my math is right you have left a pile of money on the end of your career on the table.

 

[sweptback]

In all fairness, the voices of dissent helped shape and improve the CNC's negotiating positions. After all, no one seemed to care about scope at all until the issue was raised by the peanut gallery.

I disagree. I think the vast majority of our pilots didn't care about scope until ships 701-705 were transferred.

Management did more to get scope on property than anything.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Good point.