ASA may get CR9's?

[EV120]

Don't worry...."No pilot was left behind"......

Don't worry I know 42 who were...

 

[ASApuppy]

I don't see this displacement standing the way it went down. The bottom line is that the company is now requiring an additional 20 or so CR7 CA slots. Regardless if this is for new aircraft or increased utililization of the ones we have, there is a method for increasing the slots and its called an AWARD and not a bottom filled displacement. I understand that we had a very unique situation in that our higher paying positions were filled with more junior pilots. So rather than excess CR2 CA's flowing back to FO slots, they went to the CR7 CA and those junior CA's were displaced to FO. All that was legal per the contract and done correctly. A displacement must have equal positions available to the displacements. This displacement had listed the only available positions as FO's. The only reason that the 20 or so went to CR7 CA was because that was the junior piece of equipment. If, in fact, there is new flying for us, in whatever, then that needs to be bid on by all.

I guess it should not surprise me that the company, in some way, has messed up every displacement in the last 4 years. I'm sorry, but managing a list of 1700 should not take a full time person to do, and if it did there is no excuse for fouling it up so bad, so often. I understand we are continually redirected by the whims of Delta. If we are so completely out of control of our own interworkings, then what is the point of even having a General Office and all those that work in it?

 

[COOPERVANE]

If we are so completely out of control of our own interworkings, then what is the point of even having a General Office and all those that work in it?

THAT my friend has been a mystery for years. I have never seen a company so mis-managed!

 

[701EV]

How many times has BM screwed this up? I think we need someone in their who can add and subtract.

701EV

 

[sea6t]

With regards to the difficult issue of staffing an airline...

I have grown tired of trying to make sense of the recent events in my career- congrats, you're promoted! no, you're displaced. oh, you're not displaced, but you can't bid for a line, because you will probably be displaced again soon.

So, I have given up on guessing what is going on here at ASA. Instead, I have been devoting my time to developing a new method for problem-solving, based on examples from ASA's management. It's a simple 5 step process:

1. F*** up
2. Realize I F***ed up.
3. Pretend it didn't happen
4. Don't tell anyone that it happened, or what I intend to do about it.
5. Hope it goes away.

I think this will really work in all areas of flight- e.g., running out of gas, accidentally crossing the runway with someone on short final, landing on the taxiway at the wrong airport, etc....

Surely, if someone needs to know something, they can speculate what is going on until they get it right, or until the whole thing just blows over.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Exactly...which is why your little stunt as Secretary cost Lynn and the other 3 candidates my vote last year.

Awesome. Absolutely awesome.

ABC, it's easy as 123........

 

[Twinpilot]

Surely, if someone needs to know something, they can speculate what is going on until they get it right, or until the whole thing just blows over.

Absolutely! That's all this is...speculation to the highest degree!!! We're getting 900's...we're shrinking...the company is letting us down...Alpa is letting us down. Listen...we've been a great customer to Delta...and they continue to recognize that. Last year...we didn't deserve any new planes. We were under strike vote and horrible performers! If we had gotten 900's...no one can disagree that it would not have made any logistical sense from Delta's standpoint! We have once again proven ourselves to be a very loyal companion under the Delta name this year, and we will see some benefits from that. The industry is in turmoil right now...nation-wide, yet we are poised for many opportunities. Our training dept is geared up for 900's, so that if the opportunity arises, we can be flying them in 60 days...or less! We have enought pilots to staff great schedules, or take over more flying from other carriers immediately. I'd love to believe that we have an opportunity to grow...soon. BH has stated...publically that if the company is to screw up...do it in favor of the pilots. We have inteligence running the show now, and he has our best interests in mind. I imagine that if anyone is treated unfairly...BH will correct it...fast! That may mean that a senior 200 Captain gets bypass pay to 700 Captain for a month...but, if that helps the company save some training costs initially to gain the costs to grow...wouldn't that ultimately be worth it? We all live to reactivity, with no foresight as to what may be the big picture. Alpa is working for us to rectify any inadequacies...and our COO wants us to be happy, and wants to take care of us. I don't think that anyone is trying to screw with the pilots...as has happened in the past. If there was a major error...well...BH has gotten rid of people for that kind of stuff already. It's only Wednesday, and by Friday we may know a lot more, or next week. We'll see.

 

[Tarzan]

Twin,
Did you see a Pinnacle 900 crash land today? Bounced a couple of times?

 

[Twinpilot]

Twin,
Did you see a Pinnacle 900 crash land today? Bounced a couple of times?

Did you hear me reply "got two outta that one Flagship!" On the radio...I was taxining in. I thought he was going to drag the tail! Ouch!

 

[Tarzan]

Did you hear me reply "got two outta that one Flagship!" On the radio...I was taxining in. I thought he was going to drag the tail! Ouch!

Thought that was you. :beer:

 

[blesko]

Twin,
Did you see a Pinnacle 900 crash land today? Bounced a couple of times?

you get what you pay for

 

[Twinpilot]

you get what you pay for

I've got a friend that frequently jumpseats on Pinnacle from his home in Tennesee. He has stated that he is scared every time, and won't ride in back due to it. Scary that there's 76 lives sitting behind them...

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I have never seen a company so mis-managed!

You must not have worked at many companies... ASA is pretty well managed. Mistakes are made in any company. As long as they are fixed, what's the problem? When you fly, do you fly perfectly on every leg? I thought so...

 

[sweptback]

You must not have worked at many companies... ASA is pretty well managed. Mistakes are made in any company. As long as they are fixed, what's the problem? When you fly, do you fly perfectly on every leg? I thought so...

History disagrees with your assertion. From 1999-2007 or so, ASA was under terrible management, from top to bottom (you weren't here for most of that). ASA is under better management now, however our airline is shrinking; it is not all roses here.

Flying perfectly is a bad analogy as well. Flying has a successful outcome every time you do it. As long as you land safely and don't injure anybody or bend any metal, I say that's a good day at the office. The world of business isn't as cut and dry.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

History disagrees with your assertion. From 1999-2007 or so, ASA was under terrible management, from top to bottom (you weren't here for most of that). ASA is under better management now, however our airline is shrinking; it is not all roses here.

Flying perfectly is a bad analogy as well. Flying has a successful outcome every time you do it. As long as you land safely and don't injure anybody or bend any metal, I say that's a good day at the office. The world of business isn't as cut and dry.

I was talking about now. I agree it was poorly managed in the past. That is why we have a union. (Airlines normally get the union it deserves.)

My point is that it is under pretty good management now, and we could be doing FAR worse. Our management could actively work against us. They don't do that. Sure, they make mistakes, but they aren't out to screw us on the daily basis, despite what the ALPA hounds say.

I disagree with you about the flying not being a good comparison. The company generally runs along just fine even with marginal management. Just as a flight makes it to completion with poor flying most of the time. I have seen some really bad flying out there make it from A to B.

My point is, when you start doing your job perfectly, that is when you can start throwing stones at people that make mistakes in their jobs. Quit being so judgmental. It is easy to stand back and throw stones when you don't know what is involved in that person's job. Perhaps some instructors should start sitting on your jumpseat and begin throwing some stones your way.

 

[JoeMerchant]

History disagrees with your assertion. From 1999-2007 or so, ASA was under terrible management, from top to bottom (you weren't here for most of that). ASA is under better management now, however our airline is shrinking; it is not all roses here.

How about from 1979-1999? Actually ASA made a lot of money....Employee relations are much better now...Then again they were better in 1999 then they were in 1994....

We are shrinking....Some of you chest thumpers didn't really care when our 700s and 900s were transferred....You said things like "we don't care if they send them to Skywest"....Now all of a sudden some of you care....

Flying perfectly is a bad analogy as well. Flying has a successful outcome every time you do it. As long as you land safely and don't injure anybody or bend any metal, I say that's a good day at the office. The world of business isn't as cut and dry.

ASA makes money....In fact it used to make more during the "dark ages"....Using your logic of "landing safely and not injuring anybody"....ASA had great management.....Business is in business to make money...That they have done......

 

[JumpersAway]

ASA isn't shrinking due to poor leadership, it's shrinking because the business model that once supported it's growth has changed. I saw this coming two years ago, which was what lead me to write, repeatedly, to my elected MEC. I can't blame ALPA, nor can I blame ASA for the way things are shaking down.

I do see, however, a fight to the death at the regional level. Right now, I'm feeling like we've got the winning team, lead by winning management, so hopefully we've got our seat at the DCI table well into the future. Right now, I'm fighting for every on time departure I can, and hope that others are doing the same. The given also goes for gas. Hopefully, Delta sees our contribution and we get some airframes out of the deal. Frankly, I'm feeling like we deserve something for our hard work. However, if there is nothing for Delta/SkyWest Inc. to give, then there is nothing we can do about it. The truth is, Mesa still has some fight in it, but not much. I'm thinking we will see some stuff happen in January. I originally thought it would be this week, but guess that wasn't for us to know.......yet.

 

[777forever]

I wasn't here yet, but did we gain anything in the contract as a result of the chest thumping?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I wasn't here yet, but did we gain anything in the contract as a result of the chest thumping?

No...

 

[COOPERVANE]

Your right, I have a limited background. For the 25 years prior to joining ASA, I counted every job I ever had at every level and it totaled 32. Restaurant, hotel, marine, catering, sales, marketing, medical, insurance,flight instruction, cargo and retail. How many companies have you worked for? I stand by my original statement.

And yes... every leg I've ever flown was perfect in every way.

Jackass

Do you seriously believe that you should not hold your company to a higher standard unless you do your own job perfectly?......really

Normally Aviator I agree with your posts, but not this time.

I agree NOW it is better than it was, but we still have one guy at the helm with a bunch of bumbling fools trying to plug all the holes in a leaking ship. The problem is no one knows where all the plugs are and the guy in charge of the mallets forgot to order them!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Your right, I have a limited background. For the 25 years prior to joining ASA, I counted every job I ever had at every level and it totaled 32. Restaurant, hotel, marine, catering, sales, marketing, medical, insurance,flight instruction, cargo and retail.

32 jobs in 25 years.....maybe you are the problem....I've had 6 in the past 25 years....This one is the best by far....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Your right, I have a limited background. For the 25 years prior to joining ASA, I counted every job I ever had at every level and it totaled 32. Restaurant, hotel, marine, catering, sales, marketing, medical, insurance,flight instruction, cargo and retail. How many companies have you worked for? I stand by my original statement.

And yes... every leg I've ever flown was perfect in every way.

Jackass

Do you seriously believe that you should not hold your company to a higher standard unless you do your own job perfectly?......really

Normally Aviator I agree with your posts, but not this time.

I agree NOW it is better than it was, but we still have one guy at the helm with a bunch of bumbling fools trying to plug all the holes in a leaking ship. The problem is no one knows where all the plugs are and the guy in charge of the mallets forgot to order them!

I've had many jobs outside of aviation too. Some well managed, some not. ASA doesn't even come close to the worst. In fact, vis-a-vis our current position in the industry, I'd guess that we are being managed relatively well.

I just get tired of reading the same crap about how ASA is mis-managed. Just as our operation on the line has improved dramatically, so has the internal operation.

I apologize for being snide, but there's no reason for name calling.

And I wasn't saying that we can't hold our company to a higher standard. There are a lot of people on this board, however, that expect perfection from the G/O. My only point was that you shouldn't expect perfection unless you can demonstrate it yourself. Don't be so sanctimonious!

 

[Lolikoka]

Capital "M"

Your right, I have a limited background. For the 25 years prior to joining ASA, I counted every job I ever had at every level and it totaled 32. Restaurant, hotel, marine, catering, sales, marketing, medical, insurance,flight instruction, cargo and retail. How many companies have you worked for? I stand by my original statement.

And yes... every leg I've ever flown was perfect in every way.

Jackass

Do you seriously believe that you should not hold your company to a higher standard unless you do your own job perfectly?......really

Normally Aviator I agree with your posts, but not this time.

I agree NOW it is better than it was, but we still have one guy at the helm with a bunch of bumbling fools trying to plug all the holes in a leaking ship. The problem is no one knows where all the plugs are and the guy in charge of the mallets forgot to order them!

IF YOU WERE REALLY A MARINE, YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN TO CAPITALIZE THE "M." MARINE IS A TITLE, NOT JUST A NOUN. IT IS A TITLE THAT IS EARNED THROUGH DEDICATION AND HARD WORK.

 

[gator_hater]

Maybe, just maybe, marine is the industry and not the soldier. I believe that was the context he was speaking in. Thinking a little outside the box and your blood pressure wouldn't be so high.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

IF YOU WERE REALLY A MARINE, YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN TO CAPITALIZE THE "M." MARINE IS A TITLE, NOT JUST A NOUN. IT IS A TITLE THAT IS EARNED THROUGH DEDICATION AND HARD WORK.

Oorah!!

 

[Abernathy]

IF YOU WERE REALLY A MARINE, YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN TO CAPITALIZE THE "M." MARINE IS A TITLE, NOT JUST A NOUN. IT IS A TITLE THAT IS EARNED THROUGH DEDICATION AND HARD WORK.

Wow easy there champ.

 

[TWA69]

IF YOU WERE REALLY A MARINE, YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN TO CAPITALIZE THE "M." MARINE IS A TITLE, NOT JUST A NOUN. IT IS A TITLE THAT IS EARNED THROUGH DEDICATION AND HARD WORK.

Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee (Tom Cruise): I think I'm entitled to them.
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
Jessep: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
Jessep: You're goddamn right I did!!

 

[Lolikoka]

Swabbie? Rust Picker?

Maybe, just maybe, marine is the industry and not the soldier. I believe that was the context he was speaking in. Thinking a little outside the box and your blood pressure wouldn't be so high.

There are other appropriate terms for boat drivers - like swabbie, squid, or rust-picker. Oh, Marines are not "soldiers."

All in fun. Semper Fi.

 

[777forever]

No...

Wow, imagine a world where we would have our current contract plus 17 900s. What in the world were they trying to get out of management to add to the contract?