ASA Mandatory FLICA memos

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

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[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

You speak of things that you have absolutely zero personal experience with. I deal with ALPA staffers, National Officers, contract administrators, etc... all the time because of my volunteer position. You have never held an elected office within ALPA, so you don't have the personal experience to make the assertions that you do. Perhaps you should run for office so you can actually see for yourself how ALPA works rather than believing the lies that come from Dan Ford.

Your last words has nothing to do with or go against what fins said. Post some facts I want to see how ALPA going to help me from Big D and non - unions and my employers and on and on....

 

[PCL_128]

Your last words has nothing to do with or go against what fins said. Post some facts I want to see how ALPA going to help me from Big D and non - unions and my employers and on and on....

Sorry, I don't respond to Dan Ford's rhetoric anymore. I've had enough of it. If you care to ask some questions without posting another Dan Ford list of lies, then I'll be happy to respond.

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

But according to you I have to be in the ALPA circle . So the words that ALPA say are only good for 1-2% of the pilots to hear. Us other 1600+ pilots are not to know the secrets. So we all volunteer, then would we know?
WHAT!

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

Sorry, I don't respond to Dan Ford's rhetoric anymore. I've had enough of it. If you care to ask some questions without posting another Dan Ford list of lies, then I'll be happy to respond.

I DO NOT care about your canned responses/quotes. You and your ALPAites ALWAYS say same respones. Give me knowlege not filler, stuffing or bread. I don't care about FORDS, CHEVYS, HONDAS .....please give information or do not post .

 

[atrdriver]

Doesn't everyone know that ASA pilots demanded Date of Hire integration at Delta and I had my books out to study for the left seat of the 767 - what a load of hooey....

Fins, while most of us would have been perfectly happy with a staple, there were quite a number of senior guys who DID want DOH, and were quite convinced that they WERE going to be in teh left seat of a 76 within 6 months of when the PID was filed. You know that, as do I. I flew with them, and listened to them brag about it in the crew lounge. You can say whatever you want about how the PID would have saved the would, but don't say that there werent guys here who weren't expecting DOH. Had we gone into the PID ASKING for a staple the DAL pilots may very well have supported it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ATRDriver:

You are senior to me and probably we flew with a different group of pilots then. But I never even heard date of hire. But it does not matter. The Delta MEC and Chuck Giambusso in particular knew ALPA merger protocol and knew ALPA history. Running around telling Delta pilots that ASA pilots were demanding Date of Hire was a lie. Mike Pinho even put it on paper. What is also documented is that the ASA MEC never put anything like DOH out there. They simply asked that Delta flying be merged to avoid whipsaw under ALPA's merger protocol, which was exactly correct.

When testifying to the BOD, Giambusso and Woerth again lied about "operational integration." They said there was no mechanism for pilots to hold concurrent seniority at Delta, ASA and Comair. In reality, they had just signed the Second Officer Side Letter of Agreement allowing bid restricted Second Officers to fly at ASA and Comair while holding their Delta seniority, until the point they met Delta's minimums.

PCL and ATR - look, any political body with a bunch of members is going to lie, from the Rainbow Coalition, to the Bush White House, to the Holy Catholic Church and ALPA. Making a blanket statement that your organization has never demonstrated a human frailty is foolish and begs for folks to come out of the woodwork to prove them wrong.

In ALPA's case, it is like shooting fish in a barrell. Organizations lie the most when they have something to hide. ALPA has a conflict of interest that it refuses to close. Instead the union has divided into preferred and non preferred members.

ALPA, as I knew it for the past 35 years has been destroyed from this cancer within and currently is in critical condition. I want to save it. Sending flowers, patting it on the head and telling ALPA it is doing fine will result in ALPA's death. The RJDC is trying to perform life saving surgery. Stand around the table and try to block them if you wish, but they have been preparing for this surgery for five years now and it is my understanding that the operating room is scheduled for next year.

I for one hope ALPA recovers on its own, jeesh we need a strong national union very badly right now. I hope every day that the ghosts of Reuben Wagner, Dave Behncke, Byron Warner, Ralph johnson and the rest of the 24 Captains who formed ALPA will descend on Herndon Virginia and give Woerth a wake up call.

~~~^~~~

~~~^~~~

 

[John Pennekamp]

You are funny. ALPA lies all the time. Usually it is to hide some plan that national is trying to push by which a group of small jet pilots are sailed down the river to promote some arbitrary demand du jour from the mainline pilots. ALPA lies so much that most of the time I don't even raise the issue any more.

For example I recently asked if ALPA National had shared with our negotiating committee details of Delta's reorganization plan, since ALPA had it as a benefit of the Delta bargaining. Our ALPA attorney (a NorthWest Airline Pilot) told our CNC that ALPA National could not provide that information because ALPA signed a confidentiality agreement. WHAT! ALPA is a single entity. How exactly can ALPA keep secrets from ALPA? Why can NorthWest pilots know about Delta bargaining, but ASA pilots cant?

While they ranted about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor, I just let it go....

ALPA is a political body. Doesn't everyone know that ASA pilots demanded Date of Hire integration at Delta and I had my books out to study for the left seat of the 767 - what a load of hooey....

Heck, you can probably think of a dozen whoppers Duane has told to try to make the Compass mess less of the steaming pile of dog squeeze that it is....

Fins, are you really saying that our MEC is lying to us? Have you gone off your meds? Have you gone off the deep end? You used to defile national, but sing our MEC's praises. What happened to you?

And I was at the LEC meeting. The attorney said that ALPA signed a confidentiality agreement with DAL management, preventing ALPA from shaing the reorganization beyond those who had signed it. Including ASA. I doubt the ASA attorney has even seen it, though he seems to act like he has all the answers.

why the sudden attack on our hard working ASA ALPA volunteers? How have they lied to you? The fricking MEC chairman is none other than the author of the PID resolution at the 2000 BOD!!!!

 

[gator_hater]

I don;t think the MEC is lying. I think ALPA national has gotten them to believe that this is a fight for the profession as a whole. I don't want a "race to the bottom" but at the same time I don't need payscales that comapre to Comair and their current issues.

I believe our MEC has good intentions, but they are being skewed by a national organization that really needs to show they still have a pair and they are using a small regional who pays little of their national budget to do it.

Ask yourself why ASA is the only large regional airline without a seat on the pay for departure taskforce (look at you latest Airline Pilot and you will see that we are not mentioned) could they possibly be using us as the front line?? I'm not saying this as gospel truth, but it is certainly possible.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don;t think the MEC is lying. I think ALPA national has gotten them to believe that this is a fight for the profession as a whole. I don't want a "race to the bottom" but at the same time I don't need payscales that comapre to Comair and their current issues.

I believe our MEC has good intentions, but they are being skewed by a national organization that really needs to show they still have a pair and they are using a small regional who pays little of their national budget to do it.

Ask yourself why ASA is the only large regional airline without a seat on the pay for departure taskforce (look at you latest Airline Pilot and you will see that we are not mentioned) could they possibly be using us as the front line?? I'm not saying this as gospel truth, but it is certainly possible.

I think our MEC is smarter than you give them credit for. BA my have drank Duane's kool-aid publicly, but privately, he told Duane to GFH many times. I believe that Newie is as smart, but more politically savvy with national. Do you know him or the reps personally? I know them well. He does not trust ALPA national, and I think you could say the same for the four reps. I do not see them letting National intimidate them or throw ASA under the bus like Mesaba. I believe they probably tell national whatever shuts them up and keeps the $$$ flowing, then do what's good for the ASA pilots.

The negotiating attorney is a blowhard that represents the wishes of national, and has had his pee-pee whacked several times for bullying the MEC. I do not believe they will cave to national's demands. Even if National cuts the purse strings, they will just ask for an assessment to finish negotiations.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins, are you really saying that our MEC is lying to us? Have you gone off your meds? Have you gone off the deep end? You used to defile national, but sing our MEC's praises. What happened to you?

No, I'm not attacking our local Reps. PCL made the blanket statement that ALPA does not lie and it seemed like a good idea to correct him. (now I wish I'd just let it go since my message was misinterprested by several readers)

I've not caught any of our local Reps telling falsehoods and you know I'm outspoken enough to make an issue of it, if it happened. I sometimes get a little frustrated that our local Reps may know National is not being straight with them and don't push the issue - but they know better than I do how the politics with National work. As Bob Arnold said "National will cut off our money and we will not be able to put paper in the photocopier...."

I think our local guys have done an amazing job of walking a tightrope and getting the company off of its concessionary demands was evidence of a job really well done. I don't think anyone appreciates just what a good job our local reps have done because sometimes they make the seemingly impossible look easy.

And I'm not against National. I think National is our best hope at restoring this profession. National also does a good job with safety, aeromedical and legal. The problem with ALPA is that it does not allow members in the non preferred class to have the union's full representation - which has resulted in a alter ego race for the bottom.

But who really cares what I think? I'm just a line pilot. It is what ALPA does that is the issue.

~~~^~~~

 

[Tomct]

I don;t think the MEC is lying. I think ALPA national has gotten them to believe that this is a fight for the profession as a whole. I don't want a "race to the bottom" but at the same time I don't need payscales that comapre to Comair and their current issues.

I believe our MEC has good intentions, but they are being skewed by a national organization that really needs to show they still have a pair and they are using a small regional who pays little of their national budget to do it.

Ask yourself why ASA is the only large regional airline without a seat on the pay for departure taskforce (look at you latest Airline Pilot and you will see that we are not mentioned) could they possibly be using us as the front line?? I'm not saying this as gospel truth, but it is certainly possible.

Ah, they are getting their direction from the pilot group. You know, the "Wilson Poll" thingie ma jig. I have GREAT faith in our CNC and MEC. They are following our pilot groups wishes. WE MUST stand FIRM on our demands. Mgmnt needs to understand that it is NOT okay to drag this on for 4 plus years. Tutt's letter was used to wipe my @ss!! What a TROLL!

VOTED IN FAVOR!!!

 

[PCL_128]

This reminds me of polling data on Congress. Whenever a pollster runs a poll asking a sample of the American people what they think of Congress as a whole, the response is always something along the lines of 20-35% favorable. Ask the same sample of people what their opinion of their own Congressman is, and the answer is usually 75+% favorable. People are simply more familiar with their local representative and issues, so they are able to make a better determination. People are relatively clueless about things outside of their own little circle.

Remember, your local reps and the local reps of every council make up National. The BOD meeting is coming up in less than 2 months. Who goes and makes the votes on ALPA policy? Not Duane. It's your local status reps. Everyone at National is just another pilot trying to do their best to help the profession. There is no "vast conspiracy" Mrs. Clinton. Stop living in a constant state of paranoia.