ASA makes more sense than Comair for Skywest

[vc10]

If (big if) Skywest is in the market for one of the Delta carriers, ASA makes more sense in the following way.

The number of pilots at ASA is smaller than at Comair. I think the totals are something like ASA 1500, Comair 1800, Skywest 2000.

If Skywest buys a union carrier, the NMB will stack the two workforces against each other and if one is significantly larger than the other, that union arrangement will prevail. 2000 vs 1500 is clearly a more significant difference than 2000 vs 1800. So ASA is a safer buy for Skywest (assuming there's any purchase being contemplated) than Comair.

That would be interesting. Skywest buys ASA, NMB declares the merged carrier non-union and Skywest imposes what wages it likes on the ASA pilots. All those years of ASA pilot negotiations get flushed down the toilet.

Interesting, no?

 

[Palerider957]

Open labor contract, pissed off pilots, significant operational problems. I can't imagine Sky West wants to try to swallow all of this.

A lot hinges on the closure of ASA's contract negotiations (in the year 2015).

 

[shamrock]

If Skywest buys a union carrier, the NMB will stack the two workforces against each other and if one is significantly larger than the other, that union arrangement will prevail.

Skywest buys ASA, NMB declares the merged carrier non-union and Skywest imposes what wages it likes on the ASA pilots.

Interesting, yes. Based in reality, not so sure.

 

[doh]

Interesting? How can you say that, a travesty is more like it. I hope that never happens to ASA, or any other pilot group!

 

[shamrock]

I don't have the exact number, but ASA is closer to 1800 pilots than 1500.

For the sake of argument, call it a conservative 1600. That's 3600 pilots. What percentage would you need for ALPA to get on the property if the new Skywest is "delared" non-union? If this situation were to happen (Skywest's "agreement" applied to the ASA group, airline stays non-Union) I would think that a large majority of the ASAers would vote to bring ALPA back in, so it wouldn't take all to many Skywest yes votes tilt the results torwards a Union.

Of course this assumes that the ASA group can simply be told that we are not Union anymore, which, without any knowledge of ALG-Mohawk, doesn't seem right.

 

[ProLine4]

If (big if) Skywest is in the market for one of the Delta carriers, ASA makes more sense in the following way.

The number of pilots at ASA is smaller than at Comair. I think the totals are something like ASA 1500, Comair 1800, Skywest 2000.

If Skywest buys a union carrier, the NMB will stack the two workforces against each other and if one is significantly larger than the other, that union arrangement will prevail. 2000 vs 1500 is clearly a more significant difference than 2000 vs 1800. So ASA is a safer buy for Skywest (assuming there's any purchase being contemplated) than Comair.

That would be interesting. Skywest buys ASA, NMB declares the merged carrier non-union and Skywest imposes what wages it likes on the ASA pilots. All those years of ASA pilot negotiations get flushed down the toilet.

Interesting, no?

Interesting theory, but ASA right now has about 1700 pilots. 4 more months of 24 person classes will put that to around 1800.

 

[Russ]

Proline
SkyWest is also growing, so the numbers would likely remain in SkyWest's favor.

Shamrock
Should it come down as you indicate, There would be a boatload of us voting with you to bring ALPA on board. Especially so after the past week or so of managements games.

 

[Flightdawg]

Proline
SkyWest is also growing, so the numbers would likely remain in SkyWest's favor.

That only works if every SkyWest pilot's favors to retain non-union status. From what I hear, they are already moving towards unionization. A merger of a union carrier will push them over the edge.

 

[Socalplt]

I believe manangement fully expects a union on the property in the next year or so. The expired pay agreement, 401K mess, and the latest deal with the bidding on 70 seat lines has pushed many fence sitters to the union side. Even some of the vocal anti-union guys are starting to change their opinion.

The company has offerred a small 1% increase across the board with no split in the 70 seat rate. I'm sure they're aware if we vote a union in will have those rates then for a couple years until we have our first contract. Every week it seems mangement has a new interpretation of the policy manual, -- guess who it favors.

Sometimes I feel as though management looked around at the industry and figured that if MESA was the competition and we were to succeed we needed to become more like them. Five years ago I would have said SkyWest was industry leading in many respects, now we our behind in many areas. At the same time we have been profitable every quarter, for two reasons -- a good management team and a professional group of employees. Unfortunately, the employees haven't shared in the success has much as some would have hoped.

 

[Bluto]

If Skywest buys a union carrier, the NMB will stack the two workforces against each other and if one is significantly larger than the other, that union arrangement will prevail. 2000 vs 1500 is clearly a more significant difference than 2000 vs 1800. So ASA is a safer buy for Skywest (assuming there's any purchase being contemplated) than Comair.

Interesting, no?

Um, mildly interesting, I guess. Based in fact? No. When has the NMB ever done what you just described?

 

[surplus1]

When has the NMB ever done what you just described?

Every time that the situation he described has taken place. It's the law.

 

[shamrock]

Shamrock
Should it come down as you indicate, There would be a boatload of us voting with you to bring ALPA on board. Especially so after the past week or so of managements games.

Yeah, that's what I would think. Getting ALPA in with all the ASA yes votes would be much easier than if Skywest tried to go it alone.

 

[sstearns2]

How many ASA pilots would vote for ALPA? What do you guys over there think the percentage would be?

To be fair, as of the first of the year Skywest started a bonus program where we get a quarterly bonus of our pay times the quarters profit margin which has been about 7%. We lost our 401K profit sharing in the deal, but that was small compared to the new bonus program. Of course this only works out for us if we keep the profit margins up, but it's not really fair to say the company is only offering 1%.

Scott

 

[Bluto]

Every time that the situation he described has taken place. It's the law.

Can you name a single example when a union represented airline was bought by a non-union one and the union was then abolished? Not counting situations when the purchased company was liquidated?

 

[Plug]

ASA right now has 1700 pilots with 24 new hires a month until June when we step it up to 48-50 or 2 classes per month. FYI!

On the "voting ALPA in" part. Didn't Skywest come close to voting ALPA in a few years back? If so I could see ALPA most definitely being voted in if there was a buyout. JMO

Cheers

 

[Bluto]

To be fair, as of the first of the year Skywest started a bonus program where we get a quarterly bonus of our pay times the quarters profit margin which has been about 7%. We lost our 401K profit sharing in the deal, but that was small compared to the new bonus program. Of course this only works out for us if we keep the profit margins up, but it's not really fair to say the company is only offering 1%.

Scott

Scott, I added some emphasis to your quote and the word "BONUS" for a reason. A bonus is not a pay raise. Expressjet gets a very similar bonus program along with substantially better pay, benefits, and work-rules package. Read the skywestforums and you'll see that even the SAPA president doesn't consider the bonus program a good deal. In fact, replacing the old bonus program should yield an increase of only about 4.5%, not the 7% the company is suggesting. Additionally, when SAPA polled the pilot group, the majority stated clearly that they did not want a bonus program in-lieu of a pay increase. Either SAPA didn't listen, or care, or they were unable to persuade the company.

I assume you know all this already, but to be fair, we should tell both sides of the story.

 

[Socalplt]

The bonus will only be given to employees with over 2 years with the company as well. That eliminates about a third of the pilots.

I agree for someone in my position, RJ CP going onto the 6 year payscale, the bonus should provide several thousand $ more than I saw last year. However, it didn't help me at all when I recently applied for a new home loan, they wouldn't even consider it. Additionally, I won't be at all surprised to see the margin shrink in the years to come.

If you want to consider it a pay increase fine, it will be an automatic pay decrease whenever the company decides to do the books differently. SkyWest has been hoarding cash, repurchasing stock, increasing the dividend, and considering purchasing other airlines, but they can't afford to pay us more on the 70 or give out more than 1% in hourly rates.

 

[vc10]

If the NMB believes that the numbers are not "comparable" (whatever that means) then there's no vote.

Down the road, there would likely be a unionization vote, and ALPA could well win that. But then they'd start negotiating a new contract from scratch. In the meanwhile, Skywest may have had the opportunity to impose terms.

I don't have the exact number, but ASA is closer to 1800 pilots than 1500.

For the sake of argument, call it a conservative 1600. That's 3600 pilots. What percentage would you need for ALPA to get on the property if the new Skywest is "delared" non-union? If this situation were to happen (Skywest's "agreement" applied to the ASA group, airline stays non-Union) I would think that a large majority of the ASAers would vote to bring ALPA back in, so it wouldn't take all to many Skywest yes votes tilt the results torwards a Union.

Of course this assumes that the ASA group can simply be told that we are not Union anymore, which, without any knowledge of ALG-Mohawk, doesn't seem right.