ASA Integration Days

[JoeMerchant]

Or a "realistic" look at things. Like it or not, RFPs and whipsaw are here to stay. You can't wish a perfect world into existence, no matter how hard you try to or want to.

Not true.... Brand scope written into mainline agreements would start to put the genie back in the bottle....

However if we CHOOSE not put a stop, then we must accept the fact that competition will drive wages and work rules down.....

You can't have it both ways.....

 

[John Pennekamp]

Not true.... Brand scope written into mainline agreements would start to put the genie back in the bottle....

But you and I both know it ain't gonna happen. The mess at US Air is proof of this.

The mainline pilots are only concerned with themselves, and they have tunnel vision in that regard. This issue isn't even on the radar screen to most mainline pilot groups.

However if we CHOOSE not put a stop, then we must accept the fact that competition will drive wages and work rules down.....

You can't have it both ways.....

We aren't the ones making the choice. It's the mainline pilots as represented by their EVPs on the Executive Board. They have us outgunned 3-1.

They aren't the ones facing the whipsaw, we are, so what motivation do they have to give concessions to help the RJ trash? None.

Their only solution is to put more and more garbage band-aid scope provisions in the mainline contracts. Provisions that will be conceded or overturned later, mind you. ALPA will not change because the system is fundamentally broken. That's one of the things you're right about.

 

[sstearns2]

Wrong answer, with PBS it will guarantee you will have them jammed onto your schedule via the "CN" process. This is how it is at SKYW. PBS is great if you bid in the top 10%, everyone else will feel the pain. SKYW Inc. uses a PBS software package that was not used by another airline, but was in fact was rejected by several. There is no transparency at all, in fact it appears to be magic. Case in point, the the guy who bids #1 in one of out largest domiciles(200+ Capts), he bids specific pairing with commuting in mind. A few months back he was awarded a full month of non-commutable pairings, pairings that were no where on his bid. Magic, who knows! Run as far and fast as you can from PBS as SKYW offers it!!!
PBR

OK, You can call the PBS hotline and they (the company paid SAPA rep) will tell you exactly why the system assigned trips the way it did. The system produces a report for each line that details how it was created. The top couple people at my domicile custom build their schedule and get exactly that schedule every time.

I personally like PBS. I've been bidding in the bottom 20% of lineholders in the same seat and domicile both before and after PBS and I can tell you that my schedules are better with PBS. I haven't found many people that want to go back to hard lines.

The problem of being forced to work more than you want to was the same with hard lines. I remember bids where every line had 11 or 12 days off and 100+ hours of credit. I would say that this is less of a problem with PBS than it was with hard lines, at least in my experience.

Scott

 

[Gr82Aviate]

OK, You can call the PBS hotline and they (the company paid SAPA rep) will tell you exactly why the system assigned trips the way it did. The system produces a report for each line that details how it was created. The top couple people at my domicile custom build their schedule and get exactly that schedule every time.

I personally like PBS. I've been bidding in the bottom 20% of lineholders in the same seat and domicile both before and after PBS and I can tell you that my schedules are better with PBS. I haven't found many people that want to go back to hard lines.

The problem of being forced to work more than you want to was the same with hard lines. I remember bids where every line had 11 or 12 days off and 100+ hours of credit. I would say that this is less of a problem with PBS than it was with hard lines, at least in my experience.

Scott

Your experience, has not been my experience! IE PBS and forced CN pairings suck!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

But you and I both know it ain't gonna happen. The mess at US Air is proof of this.

The mainline pilots are only concerned with themselves, and they have tunnel vision in that regard. This issue isn't even on the radar screen to most mainline pilot groups.

We have about half the votes at the BOD.... time to raise a little he!! in Vegas or wherever.... Time for some Gypsies in the Palace....

We aren't the ones making the choice. It's the mainline pilots as represented by their EVPs on the Executive Board. They have us outgunned 3-1.

I think you mean the EC... anyway, we have more pull on the EB and especially the BOD.... plus a little negative press would look bad.... What about some full page ads in the papers.... Self help can be used within the union....

They aren't the ones facing the whipsaw, we are, so what motivation do they have to give concessions to help the RJ trash? None.

Their only solution is to put more and more garbage band-aid scope provisions in the mainline contracts. Provisions that will be conceded or overturned later, mind you. ALPA will not change because the system is fundamentally broken. That's one of the things you're right about.

Your as bad as the mainline pilots.... they are facing the whipsaw... It brings down their domestic pay and causes their jobs to be outsourced.... We ALL have a vested interest in fixing this problem...

 

[VeeOne]

So when do we start the countdown till unemployment for Chuck and LaBreque?

 

[John Pennekamp]

We have about half the votes at the BOD.... time to raise a little he!! in Vegas or wherever.... Time for some Gypsies in the Palace....

I think you mean the EC... anyway, we have more pull on the EB and especially the BOD.... plus a little negative press would look bad.... What about some full page ads in the papers.... Self help can be used within the union....

Your as bad as the mainline pilots.... they are facing the whipsaw... It brings down their domestic pay and causes their jobs to be outsourced.... We ALL have a vested interest in fixing this problem...

You know as well as I that none of our reps or any other "express carrier" reps are going to rock the boat at the BOD. When you go in there, it's like going into the lions den. You know the cards are stacked against you, and if you stand out, you'll get eaten alive. Anyone who raises hell will be crushed by parliamentary procedure on the floor of the plenary session and will be excluded from the evening "entertainment" in the hospitality suites (where the real deals take place). Nobody wants to risk that!

Until we get a true majority on the BOD, nothing will change. With the mainline carriers hiring again, I don't see that happing. I think the glory days of the "express carriers" is over. Prater's "Takin' it Back". All of it, if you know what I mean.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So when do we start the countdown till unemployment for Chuck and LaBreque?

Chuck? You mean Tutt? I would guess re-retirement ASAP.

As for Brian and Scott and their lackeys, if they aren't putting the finishing touches on their "I want to spend more time with my family" letters, then there's your sign that this place is going down the tubes.

If Jerry doesn't take this opportunity to hose out our GO, then we'll know that SkyWest has no interest in running this place as a viable airline.

 

[USCtrojan]

So when do we start the countdown till unemployment for Chuck and LaBreque?

Amen!!

Trojan

 

[GeekMaster]

There's a much bigger picture here that I think many are missing. Between Merchant and Pennekamp, each of you are right on many of your respective points. I think your biggest disagreement lies in which problem deserves the most immediate and intense attention. At this point in the game, I think we need to step back as far as we can and hope to see a MUCH BIGGER SCENARIO about to unfold. Here are a few thoughts for everyone to consider.

First, PBS "is probably coming". Indeed that is probably true. The cool part, is that if this new TA becomes contract, we will be in a FAR BETTER PLACE to negotiate how it's implemented and what we get for it. Remember, those that love it and those that hate it comes back to the software and rules that govern its use. We will be in a great position with our current scheduling rules to negotiate what WE WANT from pbs AND we might even get something for back for negotiating it.

Dual Qual: as 50 seat flying heads south, it will become more the regional standard. It doesn't mean you fly all airplanes for one price. You will still have separate 50 and 70/76 rates. You simply negotiate what percentage of the flying is built into pure lines vs. mixed lines. You also negotiate pay protection to the greater of scheduled vs. actual A/C flown. That's not the part that saves the company money anyway. The part that saves the company a ton of cash is maintaining ONE group of reserves and the flexibility to instantly change guage on flights without doubling the pilot costs. (paying the cancelled crew as well as the flying crew) Therefore, once again we ARE in a position to get something for this through negotiations. If we don't do it, plenty of other regionals have already proven THEY WILL.

This is all in preparation for what SKW Inc and countless industry experts believe is going to happen over the next two years: THE IMPLOSION OF MESA. I hate to see any of my union brothers lose their jobs, but nothing we do here is going to stop it from happening. SKW inc just wants to be in the best possible position to "raid that dead bear's cave".

While I understand JoeMerchant's desire to stop competing within a brand, consider this. THIS train is already at full steam, heading down the tracks at over 100 mph and its only 50 feet from a car stuck on the tracks. Our only immediate decision is whether we want to be on the train or in the car.

 

[John Pennekamp]

While I understand JoeMerchant's desire to stop competing within a brand, consider this. THIS train is already at full steam, heading down the tracks at over 100 mph and its only 50 feet from a car stuck on the tracks. Our only immediate decision is whether we want to be on the train or in the car.

Well said.