ASA Hiring, according to Air Inc.

[John Pennekamp]

HA! Funny you should mention that. My last flight physical was interrupted by a sales :cartman: BABE :cartman: handing out free samples of a male erectile disfunction cure. My Doctor got so distracted that my physical was instantly over and I passed, without even a vision test.

I self administered the test with the help of a nurse just to ensure my vision was holding in there uncorrected.

And the bill was still $220.

If you aren't paying the $15 copay only for your medical, you're seeing the wrong doc! Pm me if you want the gouge.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ok, I'll give you the 59+364 argument. Just keep in mind that this same guy will be there at 64+364.

Using your scenario, how would you feel about the 60 year old captain with the hidden heart condition (who the doc pencilwhipped) paired with a 200 hr FO going into AVL at night, no radar, and terrible weather, landing ILS 16 after a 6 leg day and 14 duty hours.

Cleared direct Broad River, direct Keans, full ILS 16. On the initial approach at Broad River, the CA croaks.

Now what?

That's a problem, and it is probably happening now with captains who are under 60 and have hidden heart conditions... how many has CAL had recently?

Why don't we make sure that BOTH pilots are fully capable in the event the other croaks.... I have my doubts now.... I know we have FO's that couldn't handle your senario above....

Your not going to eliminate the situation of the captain possibly becoming incapacitated regardless of whether age 60 changes or not... Maybe we should set higher standards for 121 crewmembers..... both for safety and for collective bargaining.....

 

[BIGGOAT]

$220? My last 1st class with and EKG was $150...in Fayetteville.

Goat

 

[John Pennekamp]

That's a problem, and it is probably happening now with captains who are under 60 and have hidden heart conditions... how many has CAL had recently?

Why don't we make sure that BOTH pilots are fully capable in the event the other croaks.... I have my doubts now.... I know we have FO's that couldn't handle your senario above....

Your not going to eliminate the situation of the captain possibly becoming incapacitated regardless of whether age 60 changes or not... Maybe we should set higher standards for 121 crewmembers..... both for safety and for collective bargaining.....

Exactly. While your were responding, you missed my edit. That's why I'll take the 23 year old over the 60+ year old any day.

I agree that the standards need to rise, and it's going to have to come from the FAA since the airlines won't do it and the union doesn't care to (or is afraid to).

 

[JoeMerchant]

Exactly. While your were responding, you missed my edit. That's why I'll take the 23 year old over the 60+ year old any day.

I agree that the standards need to rise, and it's going to have to come from the FAA since the airlines won't do it and the union doesn't care to (or is afraid to).

D@mmit we're starting to agree again....

Who is more likely to stand up to management when pushed... the 60 year old, or the 23 year old who wants to go to Delta...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Who is more likely to stand up to management when pushed... the 60 year old, or the 23 year old who wants to go to Delta...

The 23 year old if he is smart.

Age 60 has always been an economic arguement wrapped up in a safety wrapper. Pilots are less and less likely to be the hard drinking, chain smoking, skirt chasers that were around when Ernie Gann's predecessors made up the age 60 rule. The change in lifestyle, along with the advancements in health care, can result in some pilots functioning well into their eighties.

It would be a good topic for another thread - but getting some excercise, cutting the drinking down to a glass or two of wine a week and taking up new hobbies that push your mind a little make an incredible difference as we age.

 

[AV8700]

The 23 year old if he is smart.

Age 60 has always been an economic arguement wrapped up in a safety wrapper. Pilots are less and less likely to be the hard drinking, chain smoking, skirt chasers that were around when Ernie Gann's predecessors made up the age 60 rule. The change in lifestyle, along with the advancements in health care, can result in some pilots functioning well into their eighties.

It would be a good topic for another thread - but getting some excercise, cutting the drinking down to a glass or two of wine a week and taking up new hobbies that push your mind a little make an incredible difference as we age.

A glass or two a week? Good god man! Its not even noon and I'm finished for the next two months

 

[John Pennekamp]

The 23 year old if he is smart.

Age 60 has always been an economic arguement wrapped up in a safety wrapper. Pilots are less and less likely to be the hard drinking, chain smoking, skirt chasers that were around when Ernie Gann's predecessors made up the age 60 rule. The change in lifestyle, along with the advancements in health care, can result in some pilots functioning well into their eighties.

It would be a good topic for another thread - but getting some excercise, cutting the drinking down to a glass or two of wine a week and taking up new hobbies that push your mind a little make an incredible difference as we age.

You lost me. But I agree that safety is a red herring in the issue.

I would say the near 60 crowd today WAS the skirt-chasing, chain-smoking, heavy drinking crowd of that era who probably didn't take care of themselves and now suffer health problems. Quite honestly, many ALPA insiders are saying that age 65 won't matter, because few pilots over 60 will be able to keep their medical anyhow.

As you said, young people today are healthier and tend take better care of themselves then the previous generation. When they are 60, they will be much healthier than today's 60 year old. So by then, an age extension will be useful and appropriate.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I have read that the root of the age 60 rule was in large part do to the entering of the jet era for airline travel. The fear was that the old guys would not be able to keep up with the added speed (I would add say extra complexity too if I hadn't had one of my former bosses recount flying Connie's for Eastern) of the new jets. The age sixty rule was brought about to weed out the old guys that were senior and sure to be the first ones to fly the jets entering service.

I think I read that in a Bob Buck book.

 

[jeroom]

Well, throw that idea in the trash can, and go ask the older AA pilots how the age 60 rule came to life. They will tell ya

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I would if I knew any.

 

[wms]

...and just like old times, you manage to take a thread about ASA hiring and turn it into an ALPA issue.

Correction. He turns it into a JB issue.

 

[CFI2766]

Correction. He turns it into a JB issue.

Very good point. It is semmingly apparent that Mr Merchant's points center around his issues, the ones that would further his career and earnings potential, while allowing him to not have to 'move on' to another airline.

 

[crjskipper]

From MJ's office, she has processed out 4 ground school busts and a cpt.

mj doesnt process pilots until they are line qualified - until IOE is complete they belong to training - so once again - wrong.

also - according to the head asa IP at FSI last week - no new hire has busted ground school in several years, and only 3 have resigned this entire year for trouble while in training.

he said there has been an increase in extra sim time when guys arent ready for their check on time - but usually one or two. he also said this is no different than the last dozen hiring booms over the last ten years.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Very good point. It is semmingly apparent that Mr Merchant's points center around his issues, the ones that would further his career and earnings potential, while allowing him to not have to 'move on' to another airline.

I would submit that the majority of airline pilots main issues center around issues that would further their career and earnings potential... quit pretending that every airline pilot is fighting for some greater good... they are looking out for their best interests..... look at the current USAirways b!tchfest on the ALPA boards....

 

[ASARJMan]

Exactly. While your were responding, you missed my edit. That's why I'll take the 23 year old over the 60+ year old any day.quote]

Care to comment on the rumor going around that you, while supposedly representing ALPA pilots, helped sabatage a LOA that JR wrote regarding ASA pilots nearing/at 60 remaining employed at ASA.

 

[Tarzan]

Care to comment on the rumor going around that you, while supposedly representing ALPA pilots, helped sabatage a LOA that JR wrote regarding ASA pilots nearing/at 60 remaining employed at ASA.

Probably because he knew you were nearing it and wanted you out.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Care to comment on the rumor going around that you, while supposedly representing ALPA pilots, helped sabatage a LOA that JR wrote regarding ASA pilots nearing/at 60 remaining employed at ASA.

You post makes no sense. You must have me confused with someone else.

I have a pretty good idea who you're referring to, maybe you should call him... unless your motive is just public embarassment... in which case, you're an even bigger tool than I thought, MP.

 

[ifly4food]

Care to comment on the rumor going around that you, while supposedly representing ALPA pilots, helped sabatage a LOA that JR wrote regarding ASA pilots nearing/at 60 remaining employed at ASA.

No, John, he doesn't have to call me. He won't anyhow... he's too much of a wus. I'll answer that one right here.

Yes, Mike, I did help to kill it. And I WAS representing ALPA pilots.

As the FIRST OFFICER REP, it was my duty to REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF THE ATL FIRST OFFICERS, most of which would suffer if the retirement age was raised. Also, if I recall, JR's LOA would have allowed the retirees to come back retroactively, WITH seniority. Most of the MEC actually agreed it was a bad idea.

I find it incredibly dispicable of you to come on here "anonymously" and stir up questions of my personal credibility. Such speaks volumes of yours. And don't be the MEC's little lap dog, yelping at me and trying to bite my ankles because I dare question their negotiation strategy publicly.

Next time you have a legitimate question, grow some balls and question me in a forum where you are man enough to sign your name to the attack.

W. Faruzzi

 

[CFI2766]

Attn Fo's:

Age 65 Is Not Good For Us...

 

[Texx]

mj doesnt process pilots until they are line qualified - until IOE is complete they belong to training - so once again - wrong.

also - according to the head asa IP at FSI last week - no new hire has busted ground school in several years, and only 3 have resigned this entire year for trouble while in training.

he said there has been an increase in extra sim time when guys arent ready for their check on time - but usually one or two. he also said this is no different than the last dozen hiring booms over the last ten years.[/quote]

You might want to ask her. She says she does.

You also might want to talk to the guys doing IOE. I don't think some of them would agree with you on this one either.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[79%N1]

Attn Fo's:

Age 65 Is Not Good For Us...

Until you are the one who is 59 and wishes to keep working for a few more years and are perfectly healthy and willing! Then you will be singing a different tune.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Until you are the one who is 59 and wishes to keep working for a few more years and are perfectly healthy and willing! Then you will be singing a different tune.

Right now, the pro 65 crowd is the group that lost their pensions and can't afford to retire.

By the time current FOs approach retirement age, hopefully they will have planned for their own retirement and can afford to retire at a time of their choosing. As do I.

 

[ASARJMan]

As the FIRST OFFICER REP, it was my duty to REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF THE ATL FIRST OFFICERS, most of which would suffer if the retirement age was raised. Also, if I recall, JR's LOA would have allowed the retirees to come back retroactively, WITH seniority. Most of the MEC actually agreed it was a bad idea.
W. Faruzzi

No wonder you weren't elected Capt's rep. Yep, it's all about you huh WF. Typical young buck without a clue.

 

[John Pennekamp]

No wonder you weren't elected Capt's rep. Yep, it's all about you huh WF. Typical young buck without a clue.

Hey Pearson, guess he didn't bitchslap you hard enough huh? Keep attacking him anonymously if you like, it only makes you look bad. I respect him for having the cajones to stand up for what he believes in.

At least he gave it a run. what have you done lately except attack anyone who dares think outside the box?

Get a life, "Jetdi" dork.

 

[CFI2766]

Until you are the one who is 59 and wishes to keep working for a few more years and are perfectly healthy and willing! Then you will be singing a different tune.

THUS the attention FO tag line...

 

[ASARJMan]

Hey Pearson.

Not Pearson whiny arse. Truth getting to you big bad brave tough guys on flightinfo eh?

 

[doh]

Well SH sent out a memo that said voluntary premium might be gone next month... A bold face lie or an indication that we are getting staffed.

I don't see growth. I think growth at the regionals has topped out. Attrition is where movement is going to come from.

I know we all want to believe that a 200 hour pilot can't do this job. What the airlines are about to discover is that they can. They are eager to please and are trying there hardest. Expect this discovery to bite us in the a$$ in a couple years.

Any yahoo can swing gear. The part about a$$ biting in a couple of years when they upgrade is spot on.

 

[ASARJMan]

Not Pearson whiny arse.

Then again, maybe I am. Or I just might be the walrus, kookookoochew!