ASA: Growth or Contract?

[~~~^~~~]

Maybe the "quid pro quo" will be RJDC supporters like "fins" working to undermine our contract and blame it on "ALPA's Evil Empire".

You have got to be kidding. That is one low blow and I think you should retract that - before I start using photoshop to put you in bed between ( Deleted out of fear).

But seriously, how would destroying the ALPA wall that keeps us from achieving scope "undermine our contract." If it were up to me the next negotiating session would require that Delta management be present and that Delta's signature be at the bottom of the agreement. The RJDC is the best hope the ASA MEC has - if their goal is to represent the ASA pilots.

 

[ifly4food]

Fins, your take on the NWA agreement is pure spin. I'll give you one that it screws the XJ and PCL pilots, but those aren't growth aircraft, they're contingency aircraft, useable only if a major carrier shuts down and NWA wants to absorb their RJ assets.

I don't agree with your interpretation. They were not growth aircraft, but rather aircraft allowed if NWA moves to take over a stranded regional market when UAL or AAA go TU. They would use the former UAL or AAA regional.

You have got to be kidding. That is one low blow and I think you should retract that - before I start using photoshop to put you in bed between S.Y. and Goatboy.

But seriously, how would destroying the ALPA wall that keeps us from achieving scope "undermine our contract." If it were up to me the next negotiating session would require that Delta management be present and that Delta's signature be at the bottom of the agreement. The RJDC is the best hope the ASA MEC has - if their goal is to represent the ASA pilots.

I could use photoshop just as effectively! Let's not turn the Goat on, though!

I never said destroying the "ALPA wall" would undermine the contract. I said you're getting awfully close to telling ASA pilots to settle. That, I have a problem with. Even surplus 1 pointed out this display of disunity we have been presenting to management on this thread.

You and I agree that the "wall needs to be torn down". We just differ in our methods.

And illegal or not, Nelson did admit that in class. It's illegal for management to directly contribute, but is it illegal for management to launder the money through their lackeys who have a hand in two pies? And are on EI status, I may add.

I firmly believe that ASA, Comair, (and Delta) management are giving RJDC money in the name of their lackeys. They see RJDC as some sort of anti-ALPA and we know how much they hate ALPA. It should make your skin crawl (and your mind wonder) why management would want to support RJDC.

I'm really not going anti RJDC. I'm upset that the same management that is screwing us all is supporting you. That raises a huge red flag for me.

 

[Sinca3]

[/i][/b]

We would all like to see these things resolved quickly. That's the nature of pilots. However, it is not the nature of negotiations. The manipulation of the time-line is built into the Railway Labor Act. It's all based on the theory that the longer it takes, the more pliable the union will become and it gives management an upper hand from the start. The longer they can drag it out the more "reasonable" they believe you will become. The more frustrated you become, the more divided you will get and the more likely you will begin to "see things their way." The company has no "need" to settle the contract quickly they already know what they have and what it costs. It is you that wan't "more" 95% of the time.

Surplus1....don't you think it is more beneficial for the union to drag things out. I mean everyone seems to think the pilot group isn't unified yet. If we were to get really pissed at the lack of a new contract then we would be unified. Then and only then can we get what we want in a new contract. I'm not pro mgmnt, I just think this is how the union gets the troops rallied.
Just a thought.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Let's not turn the Goat on, though!

Perhaps you are on to something....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812040902/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/002-0767616-8572833?v=glance

I will buy the book if you have the cajones to toss it on the table during a meeting.

 

[ifly4food]

Perhaps you are on to something....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812040902/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/002-0767616-8572833?v=glance

I will buy the book if you have the cajones to toss it on the table during a meeting.

LMAO!

Looks like a great christmas gift to give the MEC! Or at least the Grievance chairman. Baaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[Dude]

News Flash..............we are never going to get what we want or even close. Mesaba came close to striking and got crap, Xjet got crap, Comair didn't get 89 days worth. B!tch and moan all you want, but they ain't givin' up a thing. Management doesn't have to. Too many schmucks that will ask retarded questions in RGT and stay after Ops awareness and demonstrate how eager they are to put up with this garbage. This sector of the industry stinks with guys that are willing to give up the farm for a new a/c, flow ups, merged lists, the opportunity to upgrade, or B.S. retirement. Speaking of retirement, who is willing to trust mgmt with theirs? 229 DAL guys weren't and neither was Skip. Solidarity, my a$$. Organized walk out or not, ain't gonna happen. Far too many guys with 3000 hours and a left seat job, just itchin' to keep their butt in that seat. "If I could only upgrade, it'll all be ok." If you do upgrade, you ain't movin' for a long time. But please, pound your chests as hard as you want. They only way to get better is to leave. I'll hold the "union line" as long as I'm here, but all the while knowing ALPA is no more interested in our QOL than our mgmt.


As you were.............

 

[tron4000]

News Flash..............we are never going to get what we want or even close.....Too many schmucks that will ask retarded questions in RGT and stay after Ops awareness and demonstrate how eager they are to put up with this garbage. This sector of the industry stinks with guys that are willing to give up the farm for a new a/c, flow ups, merged lists, the opportunity to upgrade, or B.S. retirement.....Organized walk out or not, ain't gonna happen. Far too many guys with 3000 hours and a left seat job, just itchin' to keep their butt in that seat. "If I could only upgrade, it'll all be ok." If you do upgrade, you ain't movin' for a long time. But please, pound your chests as hard as you want.

As you were.............

I agree. The sleeper problem at ASA that I see as FO are all the mid-30 yr old cappys I fly with that in their initial brief, go off about how they flew 2 days as Brasilia FO, then went left seat, then went left seat jet, and absolutely cant wait for larger equip on property for any wages. Oh yeah, and they always tell you their total time, and time in the left seat on the jet. If I hear another "sure would like for us to get those EMB170/190s" or "that 717 would be fun", im going to pull out the crash axe. There's quite a few of these guys, good luck selling the contract to them much less a strike, they're too enamoured with their 4th stripe to think big picture and realize that big jets for ASA wages is absurd. (Disclaimer-not all the CAs are like this).

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Yeah, it's a dump. Just accept the fact.

 

[CF34-3B1]

(Disclaimer-not all the CAs are like this).

Thank you

 

[~~~^~~~]

The sleeper problem at ASA that I see as FO are all the mid-30 yr old cappys I fly with that in their initial brief, go off about how they flew 2 days as Brasilia FO, then went left seat, then went left seat jet, and absolutely cant wait for larger equip on property for any wages. Oh yeah, and they always tell you their total time, and time in the left seat on the jet. ...im going to pull out the crash axe. There's quite a few of these guys, .... too enamoured with their 4th stripe to think big picture and realize that big jets for ASA wages is absurd. (Disclaimer-not all the CAs are like this).

Do they tell you where they did their flight training?

Don't worry - you'll have a bunch of ATR guys on line soon with 27 hours in the RJ, who talk real slow and ask for "props 100" when they get behind the airplane. But I think you will like flying with them.