ASA - Future Schedules w/ Rigs

[No Delay]

What kind of schedules do you think this new contract will create?

More 4 days? More 3 days? Naps?


I am a napper...have a feeling nap lines will go away or way down. A 1:2 rig with an extra hour for 12 hours of duty - nap lines could be valued at 85 -100 hrs.

What schedules will work best (from a financial standpoint) for the company?

 

[John Pennekamp]

What kind of schedules do you think this new contract will create?

More 4 days? More 3 days? Naps?


I am a napper...have a feeling nap lines will go away or way down. A 1:2 rig with an extra hour for 12 hours of duty - nap lines could be valued at 85 -100 hrs.

What schedules will work best (from a financial standpoint) for the company?

I predict lots of 1-3 day trips with short breaks. You won't see very many 4 days and very few naps.

Four day trips will be hard to build efficiently because you always have a day with 2 legs and a long hotel sit to catch up. Also, they can't work you 8 hours a day 4 days a week because you'll go over weekly and monthly duty limits. They might do 4 on-4 off, but not the traditional 4-3. Or they could just put out the same crap 4 days and you'll credit 100 hrs a month.

I guess the biggest question will be how the rigs are applied. That will make all the difference. I also wonder if they gave up "premium" to get them.

 

[No Delay]

I am worried that it might be almost all 4 days. Just shorter duty days. 8-10 hour duty days 4-5 hours of flying. Keeping you right at the edge of the rigs.

I hope it is more 3 days.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Truth is, no one will be able to predict anything. Thanks for wondering though.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I am worried that it might be almost all 4 days. Just shorter duty days. 8-10 hour duty days 4-5 hours of flying. Keeping you right at the edge of the rigs.

I hope it is more 3 days.

If the rigs apply to all duty time, including at the hotel, then it will be 1-3 days. If the union had its head up its ass and only made it apply to "actual" duty, then we'll see 4-5 day trips with long hotel sits, but few breaks at the airport.

 

[No Delay]

There is no way it can include hotel time. Every week would be worth 50 hours.

I just hope someone smarter than me is running numbers and put some thought into this instead of just asking for rigs.

I don't have any experience with rigs so I don't have a clue.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I think he meant minimum value of a day.

 

[wms]

Duty rigs apply to TAFB and trip rigs apply to daily duty. You can bring those up in FLICA when you view the lines. There are a lot of lines this month that are commutable, 13+ hour over-nights and no more than 12 hours duty, starting and ending with 1-3 legs and 2-4 legs on days 2 and 3. They fit in perfectly and will pay well in the new contract.

 

[wms]

The company has wanted to get rid of CDOs for a long time. They eliminated a lot already, but kept some around as a favor to the few who actually like to bid them. They may go away with the new contract.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I also wonder if they gave up "premium" to get them.

I am almost 100% sure I saw something in one of the emails or maybe on the ALPA site that premium is history. As for there being very few naps with the next contract, we only have 25 or so on the 200 now.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Duty rigs apply to TAFB and trip rigs apply to daily duty. You can bring those up in FLICA when you view the lines. There are a lot of lines this month that are commutable, 13+ hour over-nights and no more than 12 hours duty, starting and ending with 1-3 legs and 2-4 legs on days 2 and 3. They fit in perfectly and will pay well in the new contract.

It's the other way around.....

Duty rigs apply to "duty time"..... Time at the hotel, unless on a CDO, is not "duty time".

Min day is the "trip rig".

This could create more 4 days and less naps.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If the rigs apply to all duty time, including at the hotel, then it will be 1-3 days. If the union had its head up its ass and only made it apply to "actual" duty, then we'll see 4-5 day trips with long hotel sits, but few breaks at the airport.

"Duty rigs" only apply to "duty time". Trip rigs are what apply to TAFB. The only time they are the same is on a CDO.

 

[49W]

I am almost 100% sure I saw something in one of the emails or maybe on the ALPA site that premium is history. As for there being very few naps with the next contract, we only have 25 or so on the 200 now.

If premium is gone, that's a 3-5k a year cut in pay.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If premium is gone, that's a 3-5k a year cut in pay.

Only for reserves..... or people who fly below guarantee. I believe UB was replaced with "block or better", which means those of us who usually fly over guarantee will not lose anything. The nap folks will be OK because of the duty rigs.... The main hit will be on reserves.....

 

[SSDD]

for those of you who like CDO's, management loves them on the Skywest side. If they could, every overnight would be a CDO. And of course they pay 1/2 the duty. That's why they go very senior. I wouldn't worry about them going away.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here is a good explanation for those that are confused by the different rigs...
http://airlinepilotcentral.com/reso...urces/trip_and_duty_rigs_101_20070311214.html

 

[John Pennekamp]

Just so I understand, we got duty rigs, but not trip rigs, then? I thought we had both.

If that's the case it's of much less value. All it will do is eliminate the 3 hour "airport appreciation" breaks. And it will be good for ready reserves.

 

[twott driver]

if they care about ontime performance and start flight reliability, they will double the number of nap lines

 

[JoeMerchant]

Just so I understand, we got duty rigs, but not trip rigs, then? I thought we had both.

If that's the case it's of much less value. All it will do is eliminate the 3 hour "airport appreciation" breaks. And it will be good for ready reserves.

We got duty rigs and min day.... the min. day is our "trip rig".... They aren't the panacea that some seem to be thinking they are....

 

[John Pennekamp]

We got duty rigs and min day.... the min. day is our "trip rig".... They aren't the panacea that some seem to be thinking they are....

The min day is 3.75 hours. It will be hard to schedule less than that even with two legs. I guess 4 day trips are here the stay.