ASA First year questions

[73belair]

When I was seat locked on the e-120 (my bid was in for crj-200) I was given a letter telling me that I was bypassed and being paid on the crj-200 scale because there were people who were in classes behind me that were hired onto the crj-200. This was all my first year so it was all the same pay for any airplane, but it would seem to me that I was "bypassed" because of a new hire.

 

[sleepy]

When I was seat locked on the e-120 (my bid was in for crj-200) I was given a letter telling me that I was bypassed and being paid on the crj-200 scale because there were people who were in classes behind me that were hired onto the crj-200. This was all my first year so it was all the same pay for any airplane, but it would seem to me that I was "bypassed" because of a new hire.

The same thing happened to me. I was pretty sure that I was bypassed by newhires, but I could be wrong. Anyway, starting my second year I got CR2 pay to fly the E-120. It was not long after that that I got the award for the CR2, so I really didn't lose any money, I just had to fly the E-120, which was punnishment enough.

 

[bailout]

Displacements are a different situation because you were being displaced and the new hires were already in place. For you to be bypassed, a junior pilot to you, (with the exception of newhires) has to be awarded a slot ahead of you. Its very rare/if it happens at all. There have been alot of issues as you guys stated, with the Cpt downgrades, and the displacements off the EMB and 700, but those are different situations which caused "bypasses". I think the original question was, Can a newhire get into the 70 before an existing pilot, who has the bid in for the 70. Yes, and the existing pilot is NOT bypassed in this situation.

 

[AutoTransfer]

oops

but I don't understand the benefit of bypassing a current CR7 FO

Sorry, Sleepy,
This was a typo. I meant CR2 FO. I was quite SLEEPY when I wrote this.

I definitely understand the cost benefit of bypassing an ATR FO for the CR7. I actually wasn't even thinking about them in the context of bypass pay, (One of my good friends would punch me for saying that.) mostly because the FO list on the ATR is fairly junior. I expect to see more CR2 FO's bidding the 70 as the lines improve.

So I beleive my original understanding was correct: The company probably would not bypass a CR2 FO and place a new hire in the 70, right? (I know, at ASA anything can happen, especially the absurd). There is no cost benefit to doing so.

Bailout,
I thought that if you had the seniority to hold a position and the company awards that position out of seniority order (i.e. a new hire) then you are to receive bypass pay for that position. The catch is they are doing this one for one. Example: 10 CR7 slots are posted; 10 new hires are awarded these slots; the top ten pilots who have a bid in for the CR7 at the time of final awards receive bypass pay for that position (I believe this starts when the new hire completes their check ride). Is this not the way its done? I'm not sure, but the above was the way I understood the new hire/bypass situation to work.

Thanks for the responses,

AT

 

[sleepy]

I am confused as well bailout. Our contract says that, "A newhire pilot shall bid within his newhire class for his initial position after all other pilots have bid on position notices." and "Seniority not withstanding, the Company may: Bypass a FO for a position in the same status." "Such FO shall thereafter be pay protected at the hourly rate of pay applicable to such other category for as long as a pilot junior to him is assigned to such category."

So newhires should bid after all current pilots have bid, and bypassed FO's should be pay protected if bypassed, right. Of course the Company can really do whatever they want, and force us to grieve it. Is there a side letter that I am not aware of that covers this?

 

[bailout]

>So I beleive my original understanding was correct: The company probably would not bypass a CR2 FO and place a new hire in the 70, right? (I know, at ASA anything can happen, especially the absurd). There is no cost benefit to doing so. <<

No, not true. They can and will do this. It is not considered bypass.

>Our contract says that, "A newhire pilot shall bid within his newhire class for his initial position after all other pilots have bid on position notices." and "Seniority not withstanding, the Company may: Bypass a FO for a position in the same status." "Such FO shall thereafter be pay protected at the hourly rate of pay applicable to such other category for as long as a pilot junior to him is assigned to such category."<<

Here is the grey area, -new hires are now 'assigned' an airplane and domicle. They dont bid on initial assignments. (other than some classes getting the option of bidding within there class. i.e. we have these 20 slots available, the oldest guy (most senior) gets first pick. This is not bidding per say.) These slots ARE NOT posted on position notices. At sometime during INDOC they are given a bidsheet to fill out. This is where the bypass comes in. If they are awarded something from that sheet that is junior, then the senior guy gets "bypassed". But that rarely happens.
Clear as mud??

There have been some grievences filed on this, but I have never heard the result. Its one of those 'contract interpetation' things.

 

[601Pilot]

Bypass

sleepy,

Yes, that's what the contract says, but the company is interpreting it differently than we do. I was bypassed from the 120 to the CRJ2 and they are doing one-for-one on the bypass. I'm not sure how they are handling the new hires, but I'm guessing that it would not be a bypass in their eyes. I would imagine all new hires will be going into the CR7. Hopefully they will be working on their landings!

 

[sleepy]

It's all clear now!

So I guess it is in the Company's interest to "assign" the newhires to the CR7 in ATL (if they need more people), rather than pay more than $19.01 per hour to a more senior pilot with a bid in for the aircraft, and have to train two pilots instead of just one (the new hire). I'm glad our contract is clear on this.

 

[g159av8tor]

>
Here is the grey area, -new hires are now 'assigned' an airplane and domicle. They dont bid on initial assignments. (other than some classes getting the option of bidding within there class. i.e. we have these 20 slots available, the oldest guy (most senior) gets first pick. This is not bidding per say.) These slots ARE NOT posted on position notices.

Dude, your MEC needs to put a stop to this ASAP. Not only are more senior pilots losing money not being pay protected, but this is a breech of the seniority system. I'd light a fire under the responsible person and have them get on it.

Tailwinds...

 

[Dude]

It's simple. Like you said, if they put a new hire in the CR7 it's cheaper labor. One other thing to consider is if an ATR guy wants to fly the jet and gets the award, he goes to class and the cycle begins. (i. e. having to replace him and them pay him to carry not pax, but books) He gets done with training and then wants to fly the 70, here we go again. 3 training events and not a lot of productivity. If a new hire gets the 70, what's he going to do, bid the ATR a year later? Not likely. Nobody wants to do the same for less so they've keep an FO in one aircraft until he upgrades. 3rd year FO CR7 is $38.38/hr vs. $35 and change. It sounds to me that $3/hr is worth not having to train an FO again until PC or upgrade. Just my 2 cents.