ASA: "Cost Neutral" Contract?

[ifly4food]

I hope for hipocrisy's sake that you are not the moderator who deleted my avatar, especially after it was edited.

Wasn't me. And yes, the webmaster will kick my butt when he sees what I posted, but I just couldn't resist!

 

[CF34-3B1]

The "by the book" campaign in 98 wasn't an illegal job action.

Who remember's Black Sunday?

Who remembers "Outlandish"?

And yeah, I'd love to see a CHQ E170 pilot walk into the Bada Bing Prop Mafia lounge and explain why it's ok for him to make less than the ATR drivers.

 

[surplus1]

I know what you are saying and I definitely don't mind healthy debate. I also understand what ALPA is and what it isn't. But the apartheid you speak of isn't quite how I see it I guess. As a matter of fact, we've had several instances back when we were one MEC of mainline interests not aligning with ours (picketing their terminal for example) and we always made it work. Go figure. Didn't even involve ALPA National.
-Neal

You've helped somewhat to make my pont. Your "one MEC" is a typical example of how your interests were subordinated to the interests of others. A majority of you didn't see it then, although I did attempt to warn you before it happended, but eventually you got the picture and separated. The truth is you were "sold" that bill of goods (by the powers that be) to achieve an agenda that had nothing to do with YOUR welfare, and everything to do with the benefit of others (and I do not mean just CAL). Whatever the cause of the more recent awakening that resulted in your separation from that pit, I congratulate you for doing it. Nevertheless, you lost a lot of time (and unity) by initially swallowing that scam. In any case, when you were doing it I predicted it would never work. Turns out I was not wrong.

Yes, you made things work later on, however you seem to be admitting that you did so by standing up for yourselves and resisting the agenda of the national union. That can be done; we've been doing it for years. They don't love us for it, in fact they despise us, but we still do what is in our own best interest the best way we can. It is just unfortunate that means that we not only have to struggle against our Company but also against our own union, at the same time, if we hope to avoid complete mediocrity. I can only hope that the ASA pilot leadership has the vision to see through the ALPA smoke and mirrors routines.

The point I tried to make originally was that the national union can and will influence the NMB to withold a "proffer of arbitration" (release) when it doesn't agree with what you are doing. It (the union) will also engineer your being "parked" by the NMB if it (the union) thinks your are being "unrealistic". This will be done behind the scenes and without your knowledge or consent, whenever the union deems it appropriate. While they're doing it behind your back they'll be telling you and your people that they are 100% behind your efforts. In other words, you will be blatantly lied to when "necessary" in the view of the union's leadership. [What the union thinks is "realistic" for its regional members is far different from what it thinks is "realistic" for its mainline members].

There are numerous real life examples to substantiate those allegations of bad faith not only with respect to the NMB (a minor one actually) but in many other areas. There is much that I could both show you and say to you to prove these points. However, I do not believe that a public forum is the place to do so. I will however say that apartheid is alive and well within the ALPA and is practiced routinely. Regretably there are far too many "regional" leaders that have been either duped or coerced into beleiving otherwise or who have "sold their souls to the company store" (at the expense of those they were elected to represent). It is not only females that can be flattered, wined and dined into passive submission. You are of course free to believe or not believe as you see fit.

Regards (and again, considering the times, IMO you did well in your contract).

 

[CarjCapt]

We were given a TA before we walked. We not only voted it down by over 97% but a few hundred of them were found one morning stacked up against the CP office door. It was a great show of unity.

Couldn't post in the large mode so I made it my avitar.

 

[FL000]

Wasn't me.

Thanks.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

You've helped somewhat to make my pont. Your "one MEC" is a typical example of how your interests were subordinated to the interests of others. A majority of you didn't see it then, although I did attempt to warn you before it happended, but eventually you got the picture and separated. The truth is you were "sold" that bill of goods (by the powers that be) to achieve an agenda that had nothing to do with YOUR welfare, and everything to do with the benefit of others (and I do not mean just CAL). Whatever the cause of the more recent awakening that resulted in your separation from that pit, I congratulate you for doing it. Nevertheless, you lost a lot of time (and unity) by initially swallowing that scam. In any case, when you were doing it I predicted it would never work. Turns out I was not wrong.

Actually, that isn't quite how it all happened Surplus. There were pro's and con's to splitting, but it didn't have much to do with what you talk about above.

Yes, you made things work later on, however you seem to be admitting that you did so by standing up for yourselves and resisting the agenda of the national union. That can be done; we've been doing it for years. They don't love us for it, in fact they despise us, but we still do what is in our own best interest the best way we can. It is just unfortunate that means that we not only have to struggle against our Company but also against our own union, at the same time, if we hope to avoid complete mediocrity. I can only hope that the ASA pilot leadership has the vision to see through the ALPA smoke and mirrors routines.

Again, I don't think that is the way it was with us. There was no agenda from the national union involved in our split. It was an MEC decision.

The point I tried to make originally was that the national union can and will influence the NMB to withold a "proffer of arbitration" (release) when it doesn't agree with what you are doing. It (the union) will also engineer your being "parked" by the NMB if it (the union) thinks your are being "unrealistic". This will be done behind the scenes and without your knowledge or consent, whenever the union deems it appropriate. While they're doing it behind your back they'll be telling you and your people that they are 100% behind your efforts. In other words, you will be blatantly lied to when "necessary" in the view of the union's leadership. [What the union thinks is "realistic" for its regional members is far different from what it thinks is "realistic" for its mainline members].

I'm aware of what you were implying and the point you were trying to make.

There are numerous real life examples to substantiate those allegations of bad faith not only with respect to the NMB (a minor one actually) but in many other areas. There is much that I could both show you and say to you to prove these points. However, I do not believe that a public forum is the place to do so. I will however say that apartheid is alive and well within the ALPA and is practiced routinely. Regretably there are far too many "regional" leaders that have been either duped or coerced into beleiving otherwise or who have "sold their souls to the company store" (at the expense of those they were elected to represent). It is not only females that can be flattered, wined and dined into passive submission. You are of course free to believe or not believe as you see fit.

I can form my own opinions based on my own experiences. Not all of my opinions are rosy, despite what you might think but I do not believe that the apartheid is alive and well as you suggest...probably a better topic over a cold one.

Regards (and again, considering the times, IMO you did well in your contract).

Thank you. Believe me, we all wish the rates were higher.

-Neal