ASA: "Cost Neutral" Contract?

[atrdriver]

Mike,
From what I have understood, there has been NO mention of anything related to pay. We are not even to that section. What has been addressed so far if I am not mistaken, is QOL issues, mainly scheduling. Almost everything outlined has had ZERO dollars attached to it. And what is being brought to the table from management is actually much less than what we have now!!!

And actually, in many cases, the issues that we consider to be QOL issues result in more efficient use of the crews and aircraft, resulting in less cost to the company. Building an efficient schedule helps everyone, not just the pilots.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

"Actually, the NMB makeup at the time consisted of appointees from the Clinton administration."

So, I'm assuming that both you will also concede that the declining economy was also a result of WJC's policies?

No, you shouldn't assume that...remember what "assuming" does...

They are mutually exclusive issues Caveman. I am not interested in discussing the economy. We are discussing how/why Comair got a release and the challenges that lay ahead of ASA as they fight for a release themselves.

-Neal

 

[Caveman]

It's not the issue that I'm questioning, rather it's the inference that because WJC appointed the NMB GWB had no say in the matter. Liberal's like to demonize GWB and blame him for, amoung other things, the economic downturn but if anything good happens on his watch it was the result of what WJC put in place. You can't have it both ways.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

"Actually, the NMB makeup at the time consisted of appointees from the Clinton administration. They were a holdover as Bush had yet to have an opportunity to appoint new Board members. As a result, there was still a "labor friendly" NMB in place at the time of the Comair strike."

Blue Devil, I wanted to answer the whole post but this alone deserves some comment.

What seems to be in question is not who appointed the NMB folks, but rather the President would intervene further down the process trail and either park the process (which would only delay a strike) or impose a settlement (hardly likely, hasn't been done since the Truman era, I believe).

Since the noble pilots of ASA are just hammering out the QOL issues it is difficult to imagine that the NMB would force them to cool their heels for some indefinite period of time. Assuming their requests are reasonable there is no way the NMB would have the grounds to do that. Read ATR Driver's post.

Magdolyn Jacobsan(sp?) was "labor friendly?" Excuse me while I throw up.

Sorry, but the <fill in the blank> will never let us strike argument reeks of self-inlicted defeatism. George Sr. wouldn't lift a finger for Eastern, his son wont either. It would probably be an elegant way for the Bush Administration to 'thin the herd' without being seen as an airline killer.

Old Maggie, 'labor friendly' hee hee hee. Please tell me you were not within a country mile's distance of the COEx negotiating team.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

What seems to be in question is not who appointed the NMB folks, but rather the President would intervene further down the process trail and either park the process (which would only delay a strike) or impose a settlement (hardly likely, hasn't been done since the Truman era, I believe).

The fact remains...the NMB at the time had 2/3 of its Board members as Democrats and thus, holdovers from the Clinton administration. The NMB was run, at the time, using the decree set forth by the previous administration. The Bush administration's decree has been quite different, as were his appointees to the current NMB. Bush didn't impose a PEB on Comair but Bush was also very new to office and probably had bigger fish to fry at the time.

Since the noble pilots of ASA are just hammering out the QOL issues it is difficult to imagine that the NMB would force them to cool their heels for some indefinite period of time. Assuming their requests are reasonable there is no way the NMB would have the grounds to do that. Read ATR Driver's post.

I will go out on a limb here and say that you will see some form of formal recess shortly. We received one at XJT for having demands out of line with reality, according to the NMB. Actually, their words were a lot worse than my paraphrasing. I could go on but I won't. The ASA pilots started negotiations 2 months after we did, in September 2002. 2 years and a few months is fairly normal for a final settlement. They are a long ways away from that unfortunately. I wouldn't underestimate the powers that be up at the NMB by the way...they are capable of just about anything and they control the ASA process far more than most truly realize.

Magdolyn Jacobsan(sp?) was "labor friendly?" Excuse me while I throw up.
Sorry, but the <fill in the blank> will never let us strike argument reeks of self-inlicted defeatism. George Sr. wouldn't lift a finger for Eastern, his son wont either. It would probably be an elegant way for the Bush Administration to 'thin the heard' without being seen as an airline killer.

I know all about Ms. Jacobson, including the stories (as told by both sides by the way). Believe me, it has only gotten worse. Much worse. Several years ago, the Board looked at both sides of the issues. Now they have become a "wage control board" in every sense of the term. They care very little for the working man's (or pilot's) plight and very much about the path of least resistance...closing the deal and moving on to the next one...and preventing any sort of worker/management strife, including self-help.

Old Maggie, 'labor friendly' hee hee hee. Please tell me you were not within a country mile's distance of the COEx negotiating team.

I never called Maggie (one of the three board members) "labor friendly" but I did call the NMB itself "labor friendly." Perhaps "labor friendly" was stretching it...how about "labor neutral" instead of "anti-labor" which is what they are now. Heck, they seemed "labor friendly" back then compared to what they are now. I have fairly good experiences to back up these statements.

As to your second sentence, I grew up in NY so I have no clue what a "country mile" is. As to my involvement (or lack thereof), I guess it all depends if you want me to tell the truth or not.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

It's not the issue that I'm questioning, rather it's the inference that because WJC appointed the NMB GWB had no say in the matter. Liberal's like to demonize GWB and blame him for, amoung other things, the economic downturn but if anything good happens on his watch it was the result of what WJC put in place. You can't have it both ways.

I am neither a liberal nor am I trying to demonize anyone. However, the NMB that President Bush has created has made bargaining for airline pilots (especially those of us flying small jets) incredibly difficult the past few years. The economy under WJC or GWB is not a matter in this discussion from what I can tell. We are talking about the NMB here and nothing more or less.

-Neal

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Thanks Blu, that explains it all. Classic. Why, I don't know why we even have a Railway Labor Act which has existed in one form or the other for seventy years.

-Your 'labor friendly' Union Brother
FCJ

 

[Long Time Gone]

LOOK! Delta just added Republic to its "Portfolio"

Wait till there are like 10 portfolio companies, and each "Connection" carrier hauls 10 percent........then it's time for concessions as we each beg for our lives and jobs. E-170's coming soon to C-concourse! Republic pilots in ASA's lounges. 70-seaters at Brasilia pay-rates.

Like heell. I think they better to find themselves some other place to go. The general consensus is that they aren't welcome in any crew lounge in ATL.

I'll back that in a heartbeat.

LTG

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

You don't see and CHQ guys in Comair Ops in CVG.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Thanks Blu, that explains it all. Classic. Why, I don't know why we even have a Railway Labor Act which has existed in one form or the other for seventy years.

-Your 'labor friendly' Union Brother
FCJ

Well...I'm glad you can debate the issues without using sarcasm.

-Neal

 

[michael707767]

Like heell. I think they better to find themselves some other place to go. The general consensus is that they aren't welcome in any crew lounge in ATL.

I'll back that in a heartbeat.

LTG

Just curious, what exactly have the CHQ pilots done to you? They did not make the decision to fly the E-170 for DCI.

 

[captain caveman]

No, but accepting $66 for a 5 year Captain and $34 max F/O pay in a recent contract for the EMB170? This is a big airplane and when you look at operating costs, they are basically working for free. Nauseating.

 

[ProLine4]

Like heell. I think they better to find themselves some other place to go. The general consensus is that they aren't welcome in any crew lounge in ATL.

I'll back that in a heartbeat.

LTG

Yes, agreed. The good thing is that the E170 (85 ft wingspan) can't fit in the CRJ-700 sized-gateboxes (75 ft wingspan) that C is being designed around. Also, it needs a jetway or airstairs since the door sill height is a good 3+ feet above the CRJs. He!! would freeze over before a DCI plane would be parked on A or B, so I guess if they did show up, they'd be stuck out on the end of D or E. Good luck dealing with the PropMafia though on D...

 

[doh]

No matter the politician, no matter the party, they don't want you to be released! The NMB is tasked with mediating a negotiated settlement, not getting you released!!!! They don't care about fair, right, or good. Their charter calls for them to get a contract out. Hey, this just in... all politicians are addicted to money and therefore sit on management's side, not ours!

 

[letthebigdogeat]

Either way, this is beyond pathetic and time for something to happen. The more this delays, the worse everything is going to get. Cost Neutral this, give us an in house hotel committee <puff> there goes a half mil we pay to corp lodging, get rid of the departure coordinators, good idea way back when with the fuel truck problems, but IMO useless today. There's AT LEAST another half mil. On time departures speak for themselves. Any other ideas?