ASA contract position.

[bigshooter]

So guys and gals where are we now and where do we go from here? Is our contract totally screwed or will we be able to finally get some stuff done. Illbeit maybe not as good of a contract.

 

[Wacopilot]

you had two+ years to do something with your contract under the CMR contract. Nothing happened so I figure the CMR contract still has no bearing on what you guys will get.


Waco

 

[RJFlyer]

you had two+ years to do something with your contract under the CMR contract. Nothing happened so I figure the CMR contract still has no bearing on what you guys will get.

What the hell do you know about it? How long were the CMR pilots negotiating their (former) contract under the ASA contract?

You're a fool.

 

[av8tor4239]

our leverage and position at the negotiations table has been Changed.. Our managment team just have to say " LOOK, THE COMAIR GUYS ARE TAKING CONCESSIONS".

Thanks Comair

 

[FL000]

you had two+ years to do something with your contract under the CMR contract. Nothing happened so I figure the CMR contract still has no bearing on what you guys will get.


Waco

Nice attempt to justify your cave-in.

 

[atrdriver]

Mid-Atlantic is flying the 170 for $58/hour, not CMR takes a pay freeze, and you think that isn't going to have an effect on our management when it comes time to discuss pay? It's called pattern bargaining, and what you take DOES affect what we will be able to get.

 

[WWEfan]

The attitude we have to take is that ASA has already been subjected to concessions for the last 2 1/2 years. We have already given back while the company has made money hand over fist and now its time to get paid. I think Comair's sellout package is now a benchmark for what mother Delta finds acceptable to keep a wholly owned growing. There is no reason why we cant be brought up to at least a Comair contract. What can management say? "We cant afford it? We'll go bankrupt?" They just agreed to grow Comair by simply freezing their wages for a while. Comair was and still is highly profitable. I dont see how mangement can argue (even though they undoubtedly will) that ASA doesn't deserve a better deal.

 

[AV8700]

The attitude we have to take is that ASA has already been subjected to concessions for the last 2 1/2 years. We have already given back while the company has made money hand over fist and now its time to get paid. I think Comair's sellout package is now a benchmark for what mother Delta finds acceptable to keep a wholly owned growing. There is no reason why we cant be brought up to at least a Comair contract. What can management say? "We cant afford it? We'll go bankrupt?" They just agreed to grow Comair by simply freezing their wages for a while. Comair was and still is highly profitable. I dont see how mangement can argue (even though they undoubtedly will) that ASA doesn't deserve a better deal.

I agree. I think our contract neg will begin to move much quicker now.

 

[Realyman]

I am not too sure that the company has made money "hand over fist". We are tied into DAL and it has all been a loss.

That is still no reason for the delay in contract. But I am still not that upset when I come to work at ASA, besides I may get a payraise soon if I get the captain award anyway. It is all good from my point of view.


Perspective is everything. You folks that came to ASA back in the late 90s(97-99) upgraded ASAP and still compain. Tell your fellow Eagle pilot that you were an RJ captain after 1-2 years seniority. I am sure they will cry for you.

Later

 

[Realyman]

Oh, BTW I heard more changes in management are to come. Rumor is online that CT is next.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Not so fast!

I think we are in a better position than some of you think. Prior to this, Comair was being asked to give back 10%. They said no and were passed over for the RFP. Now that Delta has agreed to allow the freeze they have drawn a line as to the compensation they will allow. I understand that we were offered Comair plus 1% at the opening negotiations, but that was PRE 911. After 911, our chances of getting that compensation package were slim to none. Now I believe that the possibility of getting a Comair compensation package is now again within our grasps. The only problem is that Comair's CASM is slightly lower than ours which may create some problems as Delta will more than likely try to keep these where they are. If our CASM goes up to much with an agreed upon compensation package, we could become non competitive with the contract carriers. That is something we need to watch. I to think that negotiations will move along a little quicker now that this has occurred and SB is cleaning house.

 

[WWEfan]

Why are our CASM's higher than Comair's? Their pilots make more, their rampers make more, but I'm not sure about the other employee groups. Do we pay more in rent for gates? Is their aircraft financing that much better? I do not understand how this can be. Someone please explain.

 

[FL000]

I agree. I think our contract neg will begin to move much quicker now.

...now that they have a lower target to shoot for.

 

[Wacopilot]

"Nice attempt to justify your cave-in."

yeah.....I voted NO along with 40% of us. Question for you ASA gals/guys...... How much of a pay raise would it be if you got a contract with the new "cave in agreement" rates that we have? Just wondering......did you think you were gonna ride our back to a great contract???? I'm all for raising the bar, now it's your chance. this is your mission if you choose it. btw, the new aircraft you are getting are because of a sub-par pay scale....

Waco

 

[No Delay]

Can I ask a question? Let me preface by saying I am asking out of true ignorance. I am brand new to ASA and ALPA.


What is the value of ALPA? What leverage does ALPA have in negoiating?

1. Shouldn't ALPA be trying to bring ASA and Comair pilots together? (if that is even possible)
2. Why is ALPA not trying to prevent flying outside of Delta, ASA, and Comair (Chataqua ??? - I can't say it or spell it)
3. What leverage do we have? I don't think congress or the president would allow us to strike and if we did, it would be too easy for Delta to BK which would void everything anyway. The industry as a whole is taking cuts and now our on sister company has taken one. I see it as no leverage.
4. We have no contract, no progress, and no reason management needs to move on it.

Again, I am asking these questions becuase I really want to know. I am not trying put down ALPA, ASA, or Comair and I am certainly not looking for a fight...just knowledge.

 

[AV8700]

"Nice attempt to justify your cave-in."

yeah.....I voted NO along with 40% of us. Question for you ASA gals/guys...... How much of a pay raise would it be if you got a contract with the new "cave in agreement" rates that we have? Just wondering......did you think you were gonna ride our back to a great contract???? I'm all for raising the bar, now it's your chance. this is your mission if you choose it. btw, the new aircraft you are getting are because of a sub-par pay scale....

Waco

If our rates are subpar then why did they ask us for concessions in the first place. The aircraft will go where ever mother D wants them. What were the threats given if you guys voted no?

 

[FL000]

btw, the new aircraft you are getting are because of a sub-par pay scale....

Waco

You are ill-informed. You want to justify that statement?

 

[ifly4food]

Can I ask a question? Let me preface by saying I am asking out of true ignorance. I am brand new to ASA and ALPA.


What is the value of ALPA? What leverage does ALPA have in negoiating?

1. Shouldn't ALPA be trying to bring ASA and Comair pilots together? (if that is even possible)

Yes, they should, but what weapon does ALPA have to force management to do that?

2. Why is ALPA not trying to prevent flying outside of Delta, ASA, and Comair (Chataqua ??? - I can't say it or spell it)

ALPA doesn't control this. ASA and Comair own no flying. The only ones who control Delta flying, including ASA and Comair are the Delta pilots, through their contract.

3. What leverage do we have? I don't think congress or the president would allow us to strike and if we did, it would be too easy for Delta to BK which would void everything anyway. The industry as a whole is taking cuts and now our on sister company has taken one. I see it as no leverage.

Don't underestimate our power. The NMB is fed up with management's games in our negotiations... the mediators have been very clear on this. We may get a release just based on their bad behavior.

4. We have no contract, no progress, and no reason management needs to move on it.

Again, I am asking these questions becuase I really want to know. I am not trying put down ALPA, ASA, or Comair and I am certainly not looking for a fight...just knowledge.

No reason to move it? How about ASA going out of business and management losing their jobs?

Actually, you do seem to be looking for a fight with your strong anti union rhetoric. If you're as new as you say you are, then you might consider sitting back, watching, learning, and educating yourself before jumping into the debate.

 

[ifly4food]

"Nice attempt to justify your cave-in."

yeah.....I voted NO along with 40% of us. Question for you ASA gals/guys...... How much of a pay raise would it be if you got a contract with the new "cave in agreement" rates that we have? Just wondering......did you think you were gonna ride our back to a great contract???? I'm all for raising the bar, now it's your chance. this is your mission if you choose it. btw, the new aircraft you are getting are because of a sub-par pay scale....

Waco

That's one of the most ignorant things I've heard here yet... and I've been here longer than just about all of you.

I'm glad you voted no, but don't you dare turn around and lecture us for our lack of progress at the negotiating table.

Our pay scale was industry leading when we approved it. It was better than yours. Now our contract is 7 years old, and though our pay is near the bottom, we still have some work rules that blow everyone else away.

Regardless, youy have no right to lecture us about our pay or negotiating progress. I don't care if you voted no, you're still a Comair pilot, and your pilot group sold us out.

 

[twobits]

so, because they still have awesome work rules and better pay rates, Comair pilots sold ASA pilots out? hmmmm..... let me ponder that. Maybee this was just a normal market based correction. Face it. If you were given the prospect of no growth ever, with a possible loss in aircraft VS increase in airplanes (upgrades, better schedules, etc...) wouldn't you go for increase in airplanes if it only meant a pay freeze at good rates? How much do you need to be comfortable is the question, and I don't think there are too many uncomfortable Comair pilots. Plus, Fred is a smooth talker.... or is he just a good leader with a plan?? who knows.....

 

[ifly4food]

so, because they still have awesome work rules and better pay rates, Comair pilots sold ASA pilots out? hmmmm..... let me ponder that. Maybee this was just a normal market based correction. Face it. If you were given the prospect of no growth ever, with a possible loss in aircraft VS increase in airplanes (upgrades, better schedules, etc...) wouldn't you go for increase in airplanes if it only meant a pay freeze at good rates? How much do you need to be comfortable is the question, and I don't think there are too many uncomfortable Comair pilots. Plus, Fred is a smooth talker.... or is he just a good leader with a plan?? who knows.....

I think greed makes smart people do stupid things.

 

[49W]

Pilots are morons anyway.

 

[Palerider957]

Pilots are morons anyway.

Pilots are also a bunch of whores.

 

[Wacopilot]

You are ill-informed. You want to justify that statement?

Do I need to?

Waco

 

[Airboss]

So my question to the rest of the ASA group is what can we do? What can we do to show management our unity?
This is without causing our customers delays.

Have a day where we write up everything minor item?
Or have a day where we keep the strobes on, while on thr ground (day time)?
Any ideas??
If so APRIL 1st is a great day for that! My opinion only.

 

[FL000]

Do I need to?

Waco

Well, you stated it, and it doesn't hold water. So if you want others to get your point, I'd suggest trying. Personally, I know it's wrong, so I don't care.

 

[jarhead]

Pilots are morons anyway.

Yes! That statement is also a 60-40 proposition. Not saying which way the 60-40 tilts towards morons, or away from them though!

I will say, that there are a good many of both morons and non-morons, who post on flightinfo.

 

[Palerider957]

So my question to the rest of the ASA group is what can we do? What can we do to show management our unity?
This is without causing our customers delays.

Have a day where we write up everything minor item?
Or have a day where we keep the strobes on, while on thr ground (day time)?
Any ideas??
If so APRIL 1st is a great day for that! My opinion only.

Brother, you must be new.

One day of writing everything up is an illegal job action, the union can be heavily fined and this wouldn't look good to the NMB. Leaving the strobes on is a failure to complete the after landing check lists, and something for which we could be disciplined.

How do we do it? FLY THE CONTRACT, FLY THE FAR's. If a plane is broken, write it up, don't nurse it back to ATL or SLC. Enforce the rules when Crew Sched. calls with an illegal, or "part 91" assignment. Know your contract!!

 

[captain caveman]

Simply adhering to FARs, SPs, POH and contract is plenty to send a powerful message to management....and they make us carry this stuff with us to work.

 

[RJFlyer]

I have lost all respect for the Comair pilot group.

The reason? I was sent a letter by the Chairman of the Comair MEC. I am sure that all ASA pilots received this same letter. Included with that letter was a sticker which said essentially the same thing as the letter, which was "Comair pilots support ASA pilots," or something to that effect (I don't remember the exact words, as I have thrown it in the trash, where it belongs). Meanwhile, the Comair pilot group is voting in favor of a concessionary agreement which directly undermines the ASA pilots' negotiations.

Since the Chairman of Comair's MEC speaks for the Comair pilots, I can then conclude that the Comair pilots are as two-faced as he is.

Well done, guys.