ASA Contract key items

[79%N1]

Fins.....

While I agree with a lot of your post, and you have even given me a few other items to think about......remember, Mesa has those rates/costs because their pilots trade pay/QOL for growth. JO consistently dangles growth, or loss of it (Freedumb) to coerce them into below standard contracts. Mesa is profitable, flying RJ's to feed their regional partners. (Ghast ----- can it be possible Gen Lee??????)
Comair took a pay freeze, because they were dangled cool new airplanes with wing mounted engines (that they havent ordered). The freeze is still BETTER than ANYTHING we at ASA have in our contract. Also, XJET got 100% retro pay in todays economy with a major partner hurting financially, although nowhere near as bad as Delta. IMO, WE MUST hold the line to get WHAT WE ARE WORTH! Although GL will argue (I know, I know.....53 bajillion zillion dollars of RJ debt) we are not the problem with Delta. Zero net gain aint gonna cut it!

 

[av8tor4239]

OH PLEASE... YOU need to SHUT THE F%$# UP... YOu do not have a leg to stand on... The only reason you will get anything out of this new contract is becasue of your fellow crew members that get out and WALK THE LINE, support the union, and git er done.. YOu are the weakest spineless pile of dung on our SR list and you dont deserve anything from the new contract, because you have done nothing to promote the efforts to gain it.. If anything, you encouraged the prolonging of negotiations through your anti labor/pro managment rant and rave.

Our new contract should have a clause that states "Everything in this new contract applies to all pilots on the SR list EXCEPT oh please (what ever you real name is)".

If they take premium away, so be it... there better be a major increase in pay to compensate for the premium.

Also you FACTS are so screwed up! What about all the jet guys that fly naps! Also, For JUNE there are only 2 lines blocked under 75 hours.

 

[~~~^~~~]

They had better not mess with premium. Premium is all that keeps this airline on time. Removing the only incentive we have for the performance that makes our connecting passengers happy would be a mistake.

 

[SBD-2U3]

Retro, Scheduling, and Duty Rigs.

 

[Full of LUV]

Hello ASA Brothers and Sisters- Got the ol' "financial prep for a strike" newsletter and I got to thinking of what would be the key items I want to see in a new contract. Obviously, clean up scheduling language, etc. But to narrow it down to two that I need to see to even consider signing are:

1. 100% retro pay

2. commuter clause

Looking forward to the responses, fly safe and fly the contract! Rum

Does this mean if you take pay cuts, will you give 100% pay back to the company that you were overpaid?
Just asking?

 

[Palerider957]

Does this mean if you take pay cuts, will you give 100% pay back to the company that you were overpaid?
Just asking?

Idiot.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Money is not everything!

I don't think we will see Comair rates, but QOL issues may be a different story. It seems that Screw Scheduling is more worried about the possibility of a pilot getting over than getting the job done (sounds like the Army). They go out of their way to ensure the pilots are as miserable as possible. This is where we need to clean house. Long call reserves, commuter clause, and efficient scheduling should be the key issues. Even a 10% increase in pay would not offset these important issues. And if you are going to strike over key issues, make sure you will recoup your losses you might incur. For some, 45 days or so of lost pay may make your situation unrecoverable. An increase in wages might not be the end all as these negotiations are concluded. Growth is much more benificial to your bottom line that meager increases in hourly pay. Moving to the left seat almost doubles your pay and greatly improves QOL for junion FO's moving up to replace you. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[CarjCapt]

While you may call me a "buttinsky" but as a recipient of 3 CMR contracts and on the Contract Study committee for 2, I can tell you from experience (with a 89 day strike) the following:

1. The "retro" will be nothing like you speculate.
2. You will gain some QOL issues.
3. And as "Fins" says the very most important issue is "SCOPE"
You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines
is part and parcel of your scope language.

And as addendum, hopefully before you are sold, that you get fragmentation language in Section 1 that will prevent ASA assets sold without the pilots going with them.

PS: The aviatar is a picture of a LOA placed in front of our Chief Pilot's office.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Growth is much more benificial to your bottom line that meager increases in hourly pay. Moving to the left seat almost doubles your pay and greatly improves QOL for junion FO's moving up to replace you. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

That's brilliant. Since when are pilot contracts about growth(Comair)? I think FO's need to suck it up. I never arrived at this airline expecting to make a fortune in the right seat, nor did I expect to upgrade as quickly as I did. But never would I offer my pay for the chance to do it. NEVER. For those less fortunate in timing, let's not give away the bank so a few poor FO's can upgrade to that all coveted left seat. Once you're there, 70k isn't jack sh1t either. Then what?

 

[Freebrd]

>>>>I don't think we will see Comair rates, but QOL issues may be a different story.<<<<

Tim you are so full of yourself! If CMR rates are the standard, or COEX rates are, then we deserve the same. And we will obtain them! While you remain on military leave IN THE STATES we are out here everyday fighting and putting up with ASA's crap. And when you return you will benefit from our little battles. Of course, I don't expect to see you out on the picket line anytime soon either! You don't know what's going on here because you've been gone so long. So, while you're entitled to your opinion, you really don't know what this pilot group wants do you?

 

[FDJ2]

3. And as "Fins" says the very most important issue is "SCOPE"
You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines
is part and parcel of your scope language.QUOTE]

But just remember, no pilot group can have scope over the DL code, only their own aircraft. That would be predatory. DL should be allowed to RFP all of their code. Well at least according to the RJDC.

1. Can the DAL pilot group, or any pilot group own/control their code?





In a word, NO. The “code” under which your airline operates is not owned by the Delta pilots and it is not controlled by the Delta pilots. The “code” is owned by Delta Air Lines, Inc. and they alone “control” it. The same applies to other “codes” owned by other airlines.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2 :

Enjoy it while it lasts.

~~~^~~~

 

[PalmettoPilot]

MONEY ISN'T EVERYTHING? I don't think we will see Comair rates...

Tim is making a very critical point and I'm afraid he isn't being heard. If we all just lower our pay scales we can beat MESA to the bottom, everyone will get to be a captain and then we can all be one big happy family.

Sorry Tim, if there were a volunteer airline company I wouldn't sign up for that either.

I'm here because I like the work, but what keeps me walking up to the ops desk every morning is the money that gets deposited in my account twice a month.

Don't settle for less money, our contractual payscales need to be representative of what others in the industry have achieved.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA, at the direction of the Delta MEC has put us in a lose / lose situation. We can't achieve a contract without going the direction of all the other alter ego outfits that have increased costs. I believe the best thing for us as individuals and collectively is just to find work elsewhere.

~~~^~~~

 

[Tim47SIP]

Lighten up Francis!

Tim you are so full of yourself! If CMR rates are the standard, or COEX rates are, then we deserve the same. And we will obtain them! While you remain on military leave IN THE STATES we are out here everyday fighting and putting up with ASA's crap. And when you return you will benefit from our little battles. Of course, I don't expect to see you out on the picket line anytime soon either! You don't know what's going on here because you've been gone so long. So, while you're entitled to your opinion, you really don't know what this pilot group wants do you?


All right guys! maybe I didn't word that post very well. What I was saying is dont put everything in one basket. I WAS NOT stating to take pay CUTS for growth (bad example), NOR was I implying pay cuts at all as you deserve much more than you make now. What I was trying to say is that Comair rates may not be possible in todays environment and that you may want to go after QOL issues that are obtainable. Like I said in my previous post, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Freedood, I am also sorry that I am on MLOA IN THE STATES! I guess that makes me a coward. Well it was here in the states or Korea for 24 months. Since I spent 22 years AD and most of that time away from my family, I thought I would try to be home a little more. I appologize for making the wrong decision. I would also be there on the pickett line if it were legal for me to do so, but it is not. And if you know me, then you also know that I stay in close contact with no less than 15 individuals from the GO, training dept, and line guys on a weekly basis. You must also know who those individuals are. I get a pretty good idea of what the pilot group wants, and I want the same as they do. I want the best for you guys as well. Heck! I hope you get all the QOL issues and Comair +1%. Do you deserve it, of course! Is it achievable with Delta's current situation? Maybe, maybe not. The CNC will work those issues.

P.S. I have only been gone 10 months. Have a great day.

 

[CarjCapt]

[

So you understand fully what I meant by:

"You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines is part and parcel of your scope language."

That means ASA pilots would negotiate with Delta Air Lines Management directly instead of the puppet management that Delta Air Lines pulls the strings on today.

That would be very difficult to accomplish because of the forces against, such as but not limited to ASA Management, Delta Air Lines Management, DALPA and ALPA National.

 

[CapnVegetto]

When are you legal to strike?

 

[~~~^~~~]

We don't know yet. We have to continue with our attempts to negotiate a contract with a party that has no authority to make decisions on our contract.

If you have ever done a big deal in South America with three dozen intermediaries, you get the idea. We are still negotiating with the Generalissimo's second cousin, Pedro.

"Oh no Senior, he no can do that. No mas dinero. Pardon, mui Pardon, perhaps you like a little plastic sombraero instead of any time off for siesta?"

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2 :

Enjoy it while it lasts.

~~~^~~~

Fins, why were your answers so different from Surplus's answers? Would you still support the lawsuit knowing that your understanding of the relief section was so wrong? Or was Surplus's understanding wrong?

 

[FDJ2]

[

So you understand fully what I meant by:

"You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines is part and parcel of your scope language."

That means ASA pilots would negotiate with Delta Air Lines Management directly instead of the puppet management that Delta Air Lines pulls the strings on today.

That would be very difficult to accomplish because of the forces against, such as but not limited to ASA Management, Delta Air Lines Management, DALPA and ALPA National.

You might want to also throw in the RJDC, which believes that scope that controls an airline's code is illegal. Viva the whipsaw, RFP's for everyone and no scope for anyone.