ASA Concessions!!!

[dadawgs]

When does this decision have to be made by?

 

[flyboy24]

45 ghost jets

The fact is there are no facts to this bait trap management tactic. If we were guranteed a number of airplanes with the retro pay guranteed I might be in. So we could stop our current contract and make a small contract for retro pay and delivery of aircraft. DCI is going to place the airplanes in profitable areas not necessarily the lowest bidder. With all the expansion is Salt Lake it sure seems sky west might get most of the "45 jets". It seems fishy because I thought after our orders of the 70's next year DCI would soon reach max aircraft from the scope. I'm a junior f.o. and would love to move fast. However I don't believe mangagment has thought about the facts they simply were fishing trying to get the pilots to bite on something that sounds good on paper but has no substance yet.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Re: 45 ghost jets

However I don't believe mangagment has thought about the facts they simply were fishing trying to get the pilots to bite on something that sounds good on paper but has no substance yet.

You're right mgmt is just saying if it worked at chautaqua and mese, let's see if it works here. They already know where those jets are going. "Portfolio Fred", will stand by his nickname and distribute the jets somewhat evenly just like everything else. Only question is who has to fly DO-jet?

 

[Beavis]

Lets face it fellow ASA and Comair pilots. We are a different type of pilot group for many reasons. We will not roll over or fall for DAL's "tricks" or strong arming. However, I believe that means the end of all growth for us both. In fact, I think recent history - or at least the new strategy regarding wholly owned regional subsidaries - shows that we could be continually stagnant or downsized in the future. (See Allegheny/Piedmont) The future looks much brighter for Skywest, Chautauqua and god help us all Mesa! This is the shift in thinking now. (See USAIR, United, Northwest) At ASA we have 100+ RJ's, with only like 15 more orders, and about 18 ATR's. I think this will be about it for us, in fact I foresee the ATR's eventually going away and being replaced by somebody elses RJ's. (See ASA's EMB120's/CHQ's EMB135's) DAL is "right-sizing" us, while expanding their portfolio. IMHO, in a few years time Comair/ASA will be the minority carriers. You just cannot compete cost-wise with the portfolio carriers. Comair is the Delta of Regionals, ASA the American pre-concessions. Mesa/CHQ/Skywest are the Southwests, Airtrans, Jetblues, America Wests....you get the picture, the LCC's of the regionals. And just the Majors are finding it less profitable if not impossible to compete with the LCC's - so will we. To go backwards is almost out of the question, as we dont want to enter the starting gate in the race to the bottom. It seems at ASA/Comair we put a higher value on the job of Regional pilot than do are contemporaries at Mesa, etc... But we cannot expect the next round of regioal growth at DCI. It simply make no business sense. These companies are just plain much cheaper for many reasons. So, as an FO at ASA, I suppose I can expect a 6-7 year upgrade time. All I can hope for is that FO pay is duely addressed in the next contract. Nobody took care of FO's in the contracts of the later 90's because upgrades were so fast. We need to fight against that now, and make our pay and QOL issues as good as we can, and settle in for the long haul.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Beavis. While I may disagree with your view, I do so hoping I am right, not knowing. My view is much diff. than yours.

I feel this is all a con job, and they are doing it because they can. I do not think they make more money with a cl-65 when operated by a contract carrier versus when operated by us.

They pay a fee to us just like they pay it to the contractors. The diff. is they get it all back when they pay it to us.

The 8 700's we are getting next year were a part of the carrot they hung in front of us. We were told they needed concessions so they could "firm them up". No cocessions and guess what? We are getting them any way. Skywest pilots will whore themselves out at 50 seat rates to fly them. Why are they all not going to Skywest?


Another thing fishy is the fact that we have recieved, what, 60 jets the last two years. Why was no mention of "bidding" brought up for those jets? Why were we not ask to "bid" and take concessions for the MCO flying ?


We were told the reason Shi taco was taking MCO was because they have 37 seat airplanes and they fit the market. They gave us all a route map of what they were going to do out of MCO. They never made any mention of the 50 and 37 seaters that you see in DFW. These people cannot be trusted. You cannot take what they say as any thing close to the truth. Certainly not when it comes to concessions.

 

[Medeco]

More thoughts

Guys/Girls,


After reading the ALPA/ASA webboard and continuing to become more informed I can say without a doubt that I would not support this proposal at all.

Some more facts:

The Company "floated" this idea at a Contract negotiation session
this was not given in writing in any way. they have done this before on other issues, and when asked for more facts and details, they say the issue is now a non issue the next time the CNC meets with the company.

Leaving section 6 officially, will allow the company to basically walk away from all TA'd sections when talks resume, as I understand it ,they would be able to say things have changed since the past and we want to start over. Delays and more delays.

We will not have a new contract in 10 months anyway, so the company can bid on the RFP based on current labor cost anyway, so this 10 month delay will not change anything.

I believe, that the company is testing the waters to see how unified we as a pilot group are, this still does not mean it is one big conspiracy, it is just the company playing poker, to see if we will show what we have, basically good business from that perspective.

We cannot risk giving up the timeline we currently are on, I think as the economy grows DAL will have no choice but to grow us with it. DCI already has a tenative plan on where the planes will go, and most likely it will remain the same if we say no thank you.


Medeco

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Fabulous, I'm very thankful that most pilots with whom I speak these last few days have taken opposition to the contract extension. The question is how does the MEC determine what they are to do with management's proposal?? Any thoughts?? Is there to be some kind of vote or something? Whatever.

 

[Wats]

e120pilot,
Son, put down the crack pipe! We can get you help. Never give a concession to them. They will keep the money and still not give you the airplanes! Or, They'll give you the flying and then take it away when you won't give even more! Fight them now!

 

[Palerider957]

Good faith effort....

Some of the things that frustrate me and make me wary of management are things they could change with a phone call.

SB and DB seem like good guys to talk with them, and lately I'm impressed with the depth of the reforms they are trying to enact (ACARS if that actually happens, squaring away the fuelers, and a few other things).

Having said all of this, they could increase our QOL by making only a phone call. They could tell Crew Scheduling to straighten the he11 up and follow the contract, not to mention treat pilots with respect. But, they don't do it---if they wanted us to even CONSIDER stalling our contract, why not throw us a bone that wouldn't cost any money and would go a long way to winning good will.

Is this so unrealistic? Why won't management improve employees QOL, especially when they are already asking for favors?

 

[EV120]

Been workin'

Im glad after being slammed for the last couple of days, people are sarting to see the light about this proposal.

I know some would like the extra airfranmes for more "potential" positions. However arewe really ready to sacrifice QOL and the protections of section 6 negotiations to hae this.

I'm not, and I believe my MEC is not either. still have faith in their decisions, and I am sure they will press thecompany for concrete imformation about this "proposal" in three weekswhen they meet.

In talking t my rep last night, I was told tha the MEChasimformed the company that they expect them to be at this meeting, and ready to answer questions.

Final thought...I will not sell myself for a potential rowth. I am an airline pilot. And I expect to be treated and compensated as such. This "proposal" does neither.


My 2 pesos....

 

[Long Time Gone]

Just read my email- NO WAY!!! They can go straight to he!! Where is that # for truckmasters?

1-800-BIG-RIGG

LTG

 

[Russ]

Fellow aviator
You never have answered my question. Did you pay for your job, you know, PFT? This seems to be the quickest way to evict you from a thread, ask you and you never return. I suppose its because the answer you will give is not one you are proud of.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I HAVE answered that question, and I have never been "evicted" from any thread, as you say. No, I did not "pay" for my job. Did you? Did any Southwest pilot? After all, they have to pay for their type before they are hired. And yes, it does save the company money.

Any more questions?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Russ, who do you fly for. I have ask you before, and you just vanish from the thread. Could that be because you are not proud of the answer you will give????

 

[trainerjet]

I HAVE answered that question, and I have never been "evicted" from any thread, as you say. No, I did not "pay" for my job. Did you? Did any Southwest pilot? After all, they have to pay for their type before they are hired.

WRONG (AGAIN!) I could apply and be hired tomorrow at SWA (assuming they were hiring and I passed the interview) without spending a nickel. I have a 737 type that was fully paid for by my employer. So, you are completely incorrect that ALL Southwest pilots have to "pay for their type before they are hired". They just have to have one. Where and how they got it is irrelevant.

Unlike you, who did in fact, have to "pay" for your training, which was required by Comair and was aircraft and AIRLINE specific. So, why don't you tell the truth? Or, is it just that you are too stupid to know the difference? Yeah...I think that's it.

As for being evicted, well...do us all a favor. Evict yourself. It would make this board a much better place to hang out.