ASA/COMAIR Set To Expand CRJ70s

[Freebrd]

Delta's Wholly Owned Regionals Set To Expand 70-Seat Flying


Delta's wholly owned Connection carriers Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA) and
Comair are capping off their 40- and 50-seat Bombardier regional jet deliveries
at the end of 2003 as they prepare to deploy larger 70-seat CRJs slated for
delivery through 2004.


Delta Connection CEO Fred Buttrell told The DAILY Delta Connection has taken on
"a lot of growth in 2003," and the company is happy with its 40- and 50-seat
jet network heading into 2004.


ASA and Comair plan to add 35 70-seat RJs by yearend and 23 next year, which
hits the 58 aircraft cap in Delta's mainline pilot contract. Buttrell explained
targeted uses for larger 70-seat Bombardier CRJs are flights on longer
incremental routes like Dallas-Oakland/Orange County, and new routes from hubs
to leisure destinations with shorter runways, such as Cincinnati-Key West.


As ASA and Comair continue to grow, Buttrell said using rotating crews and
aircraft at the regionals' Atlanta and Cincinnati hubs "works well." One
example is using a Comair crew on flights from Cincinnati to Raleigh/Durham, N.
C., and having another Comair crew fly N.C.-Atlanta.


Current aircraft utilization for 50- and 70-seat jets is about 10.5 hours a
day. Buttrell said the carriers would strive "for a bit higher next year,"
explaining that upping aircraft utilization benefits employees through more
block hours and gives passengers more service options and lower fares.


Delta Connection's wholly owned carriers are in "good shape" in terms of
financing of aircraft commitments this year and in 2004, Buttrell said. He
added that adequate financing was one item the company would need before
committing to future growth.


Buttrell doesn't predict adding more partners to Delta Connection's network in
the near future. ASA and Comair fly about 72% of Connection's flights, while
SkyWest, ACA, Chautauqua and American Eagle round out the remaining 28%.
Buttrell explained the contract carriers enable Delta Connection to expand its
reach and provide opportunities in niche markets, citing Chautauqua's 37-seat
ERJ135 and 50-seat ERJ145 flights in Florida.

 

[General Lee]

I wouldn't get your hopes up for any more than 58 70 seaters. Sure, Dalpa might give more up eventually--but for a price. (Remember, we have 1310 pilots out)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

I wouldn't get your hopes up for any more than 58 70 seaters. Sure, Dalpa might give more up eventually--but for a price. (Remember, we have 1310 pilots out)

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
Your scope language only allows 57 70 seaters. However Delta has 58 firm orders. Do you think they are trying to challenge the language?

 

[btflyer2]

source

Freebrd-

What is the source of the article you posted? It just says "The Daily". Thanks

 

[NYRANGERS]

General,
Your scope language only allows 57 70 seaters. However Delta has 58 firm orders. Do you think they are trying to challenge the language?

My understanding is that they are taking the 58 aircraft, however they already have a third party to take over the lease from us (at a small profit for us). This from a Fred Reid press release, I will try to find it and post it here later.

Take care guys,

NYR

 

[WorldSeries]

from what i have heard comair is only taking delivery of 8 CRJ 70 seaters for all of 2004..i dont think that articles mentions any new aircraft delivers for ASA/COMAIR its just re-states the fact that we are not getting any more 50 seaters and taking the remainder 70 seaters as planned, no additional aircraft..but i could be wrong????

 

[DDpaysoff]

Link please.

Can you post a link? I can't find it. Increased utilization is good news but I think we are industry leading already. The only way to increase utilization would be to see more of CMR in ATL and DFW and more of ASA in CVG. Right now we are at roughly 41,000 block hours in a 30 day month for a fleet of 140 a.c. If we double our CR7 fleet from about 12 to 24 that is about 5-6,000 more block hours. That justifies the hiring of 150 pilots next year if you consider attrition of about 1% which is modest even in today's environment. Looks like we lost around 20 since jan. based on new seniority list. Decent growth, but there will be better out there, if you want to work for peanuts. After ASA negotiation is up, maybe we can work on that 28%.

 

[Freebrd]

What is the source of the article you posted? It just says "The Daily". Thanks

It was on the ASA ALPA meaasage board. Only thing I see is 'The daily', which I haven't been able to find. If I do, I'll post it here.

 

[601Pilot]

"The Daily"

The Daily refers to Aerospace Daily from Aviation Week (AIG).

601Pilot

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA scope, as written at the direction of the DMEC, dictates only 57 70 seat jets may be operated. There is nothing prohibiting Delta Connection from having a spare aircraft. With maintenance pulling one aircraft out of the fleet on a regular basis, it was determined we could have 58, but operate 57 aircraft.

This is from Bryan Lebreque's comments at Captain Leadership training. Got it straight from the guy who's signature is at the bottom of the purchase agreement.

As far as any aircraft over 58, we will have to wait and see. As General Lee wrote, ALPA controls the issue and our national union is getting its orders from the DMEC.

 

[Treme]

Isn't there any possibility of a compromise between the ALPA units at the mainline and connection carriers?

Perhaps a "joint scope" agreement. Something that will allow a transition from the current scope language to something more inclusive over a period of 5 years or so.

Something like the following for example:

Delta Airlines agrees to terminate the contracts with all affiliate Connection carriers (ACA, Skywest, Chautauqua) within 5 years. That flying will be transferred to Delta Airlines or any of its subsidiaries.

In return, the DMEC will allow Delta to fly unlimited 70 and 90 seat regional jets at Comair/ASA IF...

If... There are no further furloughs and during any fiscal quarter in which the GNP grows 1% or greater, the company must agree to grow the mainline 5% or -- alternatively -- add one mainline aircraft (greater than 90 seats or 100,000 lbs) for every 3 70-90 seat aircraft placed at Connection.

If... Delta Air Lines furloughees are permitted to staff all 70 seaters over number 57, and all 90 seaters until such time that they are recalled to the mainline. Once they are recalled to mainline, those aircraft will remain at Comair/ASA and be staffed by Comair/ASA pilots. On that date a bidirectional flowthrough agreement (100%) will be instituted.

If... Delta Air Lines chooses to purchase another regional-jet operator this will constitute a "trigger event". If a trigger-event occurs Delta Air Lines agrees to merge all wholly-owned Connection carriers within 90 days of the transaction. No Delta or wholly-owned Delta Connection pilot may be furloughed as a result of that transaction.

Just some thoughts -- No ONE party is going to win everything they want here... both sides will have to move away from their hard line stance. The trick is to sit down with each other and decide what you want the airline to look like when it's all said and done. Once that's done, the next trick is convincing Delta management to go along with it -- unlimited 70 - 90 seat airplanes at a permanently lower cost structure ought to do the trick.

 

[wil]

Treme- I like your thinking. The problem is that mainline doesn't want to sit down with us, but rather have us grab our ankles. Oh, there are a few happy we have hired furloughees but to most mainline people (pilots on down) we are just their lackeys. It's a bad situation at ASA right now and watching contract carriers grow like a weed in our hub is not helping motivation.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Treme- I like your thinking. The problem is that mainline doesn't want to sit down with us, but rather have us grab our ankles. Oh, there are a few happy we have hired furloughees but to most mainline people (pilots on down) we are just their lackeys. It's a bad situation at ASA right now and watching contract carriers grow like a weed in our hub is not helping motivation.

Since you are in contract negotiations, don't you guys have a chance to do something about your outsourcing. Altough rjdc would love to stop that ability.

Good luck in negotiations, I hope you guys get a great contract. Thank you for hiring some of our guys and making them feel welcome.

fly safe,
NYR

 

[~~~^~~~]

Since you are in contract negotiations, don't you guys have a chance to do something about your outsourcing. Altough rjdc would love to stop that ability.
fly safe,
NYR

Oh come on. It is one thing to be confused, but you guys know better. Here we go again - ALPA will not allow the ASA MEC to enter into negotiations with Delta over scope due to objections by the Delta MEC. Repeated representational requests to ALPA have been denied and referred to the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee for study..... where they will be studied..... and studied...... until the Delta MEC is willing to work with us (my guess I'll retire first). After three full years the BSIC has yet to report one word on the impact of mainline bargaining.

Now, how exactly are we supposed to achieve scope when we can not contract with the party that controls the flying? We can not legally bind a third party (Delta) who is a non-signatory to the agreement and ALPA again, how many times must I repeat this, will not allow Comair or ASA to negotiate scope that binds Delta. ALPA does not want us having that kind of power.

This is the crux of the representational litigation brought by the RJDC. The RJDC is the only way that Connection pilots might ever be able to achieve scope and the only way scope will actually work to protect mainline jobs. (You think Contract 2000 scope has worked???)

P.S. A group of mainline pilots hired Mike Haber, the RJDC's attorney, to bring their own DFR claim against ALPA. I'll post a link on the general board to their web site when I get time to look it up again.

 

[wil]

NYR- Thank you for your support. I reread my post and I don't like the tone- it's just so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** frustrating at times. I am glad we are able to help out until things improve at mainline.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Isn't there any possibility of a compromise between the ALPA units at the mainline and connection carriers?

Perhaps a "joint scope" agreement. Something that will allow a transition from the current scope language to something more inclusive over a period of 5 years or so.

Treme: You are correct. The ASA and Comair MEC's tried to engage the Delta MEC in just such a dialogue. ALPA National even wrote about "system scope." However, the Delta pilots' MEC does see any benefit to a system scope solution because they can control any flying they want through their superior bargaining position, maintained by blocking ASA's access to the bargaining table. (And they are correct until the law it upheld and we rescue our union from this hijacking)

You have an excellent idea, but it would take leadership and moral charater to execute it.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Oh come on. It is one thing to be confused, but you guys know better. Here we go again - ALPA will not allow the ASA MEC to enter into negotiations with Delta over scope due to objections by the Delta MEC. Repeated representational requests to ALPA have been denied and referred to the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee for study..... where they will be studied..... and studied...... until the Delta MEC is willing to work with us (my guess I'll retire first). After three full years the BSIC has yet to report one word on the impact of mainline bargaining.

Now, how exactly are we supposed to achieve scope when we can not contract with the party that controls the flying? We can not legally bind a third party (Delta) who is a non-signatory to the agreement and ALPA again, how many times must I repeat this, will not allow Comair or ASA to negotiate scope that binds Delta. ALPA does not want us having that kind of power.

This is the crux of the representational litigation brought by the RJDC. The RJDC is the only way that Connection pilots might ever be able to achieve scope and the only way scope will actually work to protect mainline jobs. (You think Contract 2000 scope has worked???)

P.S. A group of mainline pilots hired Mike Haber, the RJDC's attorney, to bring their own DFR claim against ALPA. I'll post a link on the general board to their web site when I get time to look it up again.

Oh, I see now. Scope is good, but if you don't have the resources to get it, then no one should have it.

You rjdc guys may want to take a break from posting. Your BS is showing more and more. STOP the BS, explain to the people what would happen if rjdc prevailed...........there would be ZERO job protection until you found the group of pilots that could fly for free. Even this group may not be protected, you may find pilots who are willing to PAY for the chance to fly 757's and such.

Lastly, I ask you this.....What do you want the outcome of all this to be? Don't beat around the bush here. I want to know what types of planes you want for dci and the pay rates you would like to fly them at. After you do all this, I would like to know how you intend on protecting your jobs...

NYR

I don't know why I can't ignore you rjdc guys. God knows I am trying. Fly safe.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

RANGER!,

We want all future 777 and the new Airbus 380!!!!

Why don't you grow up. The law suit is about DFR. Period.

And you know it. Instead of protecting our interest ALPA chose to ignore them in favor of the Delta pilots. ALPA, the UNION we pay dues to spent a lot of money to help Delta pilots negotiate away air frames we had coming. When we were bought, we had a heck of a lot more than 58 70 seaters coming. Our UNION fought against us when they should of been fighting for us. Thus, the DFR law suit.

You can spin it any way you want, but we pay for ALPA and the last thing we expect is for them to work against OUR best interset.

Now, do you have a beef with us wanting more larger aircraft?? I am sure you do. Can't blame you for that at all. But the Delta MEC decided long ago it would be better to build walls between us than work with us. We are fighting for our interest. We are seperate airlines according to your MEC. And like any other pilot group, we want to grow.

 

[ACE]

AFELLOWAVIATOR,
I would just give up trying to explain the RJDC to any Delta pilot. They are never going to get it, because they just don't want too. We know the truth, let them keep whinning about it all they want.

 

[NYRANGERS]

AFELLOWAVIATOR,
I would just give up trying to explain the RJDC to any Delta pilot. They are never going to get it, because they just don't want too. We know the truth, let them keep whinning about it all they want.

Lastly, I ask you this.....What do you want the outcome of all this to be? Don't beat around the bush here. I want to know what types of planes you want for dci and the pay rates you would like to fly them at. After you do all this, I would like to know how you intend on protecting your jobs...

NYR

This kind of question has been asked many times. Most recently asked of Mr. Brieling and Ford. To this date no specifics have been addressed. It seems once to have to explain exactly where you would like to see your selves (ie. Aircraft types and pay, and how you plane on protecting your fellow pilots once you have all the planes), you just start babling about how no one understands you guys and so on and so on.

I wish you guys sucess and happiness with your careers, just not at the expense of mine or any other pilots. Good luck in your pursuit of other peoples jobs and money.




NYR