ASA: Captain's Authority vs. Insubordination?

[405]

I've seen six references to dispatchers and one mention of maintenance on this thread. Why don't you call your maintenance controllers and tell them you are refusing an aircraft? As a dispatcher, I can try to get a swap but that just means some other crew is going to have to take the POS aircraft in the heat. Get your maintenance involved and maybe they'll fix the crappy APU's.

 

[atrdriver]

I've seen six references to dispatchers and one mention of maintenance on this thread. Why don't you call your maintenance controllers and tell them you are refusing an aircraft? As a dispatcher, I can try to get a swap but that just means some other crew is going to have to take the POS aircraft in the heat. Get your maintenance involved and maybe they'll fix the crappy APU's.

Well, that would work great IF our MX department was interested in fixing things. Fact is, most times the mechanics are told to go defer whatever on ship on whatever, NOT to go find out what is wrong. We had a deferred APU last winter, when I was willing to take it, but we couldn't get the ship to take external power. We called MX out to figure out what was wrong, and the mechanic told me that he could get the APU going in about 30 minutes, and he had the parts, but they wouldn't let him fix it. Go figure.

 

[405]

Well, that would work great IF our MX department was interested in fixing things. Fact is, most times the mechanics are told to go defer whatever on ship on whatever, NOT to go find out what is wrong. We had a deferred APU last winter, when I was willing to take it, but we couldn't get the ship to take external power. We called MX out to figure out what was wrong, and the mechanic told me that he could get the APU going in about 30 minutes, and he had the parts, but they wouldn't let him fix it. Go figure.

It's the same way here. I love that statement from maintenance control: "Well, let's just defer it." AKA: Don't fix it - we're too cheap and it would take too much time. Total BS.

 

[kingairpilot]

I'm not sure how other aircraft are set up, but the CRJ200 packs are pretty much useless on 10th stage engine bleed air only at idle power. .

True, but that is what the little thrust lever thingies are for. You run the power up to 60~70% and watch the cabin temp come down. If ya run out of gas...oh well. Shoulda fixxed teh damn APU.

 

[ohplease!]

True, but that is what the little thrust lever thingies are for. You run the power up to 60~70% and watch the cabin temp come down. If ya run out of gas...oh well. Shoulda fixxed teh dang APU.

well, don't worry about who or what might be behind you. Ya' ignorant wretch.

 

[kingairpilot]

well, don't worry about who or what might be behind you. Ya' ignorant wretch.

Ignorant...perhaps, but well airconditioned.

You might want to turn on the sarcasm detector.

ka

 

[FORESTGUMP]

Ignorant...perhaps, but well airconditioned.

You might want to turn on the sarcasm detector.

ka

try adding one of these then .... etc.

 

[Lars!]

Has anyone refused to take an airplane (like the 1900) that doesn't have an APU installed?

The key is reasonability and judgment. Does your aircraft cool well with engine powered a/c only? Does your company have a procedure for loading pax with one engine running? If so, then APU inop/not installed flight is reasonable. Otherwise...not so much. The other key is that if you have an APU installed but it is on MEL then the FARs are specific that the Captain must agree with the MEL deferral. That's not the case when the aircraft has no APU installed.

One other factor is whether you are union or not (or rich.) Without a union (or a lot of cash), you can have the law on your side but still be fired. And, unless you got the $$$ to fight it yourself, you're out of luck.

 

[COOPERVANE]

We didn't have no APU's in '56 on the conni, so why do we need 'em now!!

Too much soft livin' with your cool air an such.

 

[Corona]

We didn't have no APU's in '56 on the conni, so why do we need 'em now!!

Too much soft livin' with your cool air an such.

Probably because you didn't have 2-hour ground holds then, skippy.

C

 

[30West]

Same for cargo. Nothing like an APU inop DC-10 freighter full of fish baking in the hot African sun for a few hours!uke:

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Same for cargo. Nothing like an APU inop DC-10 freighter full of fish baking in the hot African sun for a few hours!uke:

The fish are already dead no?

 

[kingairpilot]

Same for cargo. Nothing like an APU inop DC-10 freighter full of fish baking in the hot African sun for a few hours!uke:

Oh yeah, what about some of our FA's baking in the back of a hot A/C?

 

[Blucher]

True, but that is what the little thrust lever thingies are for. You run the power up to 60~70% and watch the cabin temp come down. If ya run out of gas...oh well. Shoulda fixxed teh dang APU.

Actually your brake temps will get you well before you run out of gas if you do this, and you'll be returning to the gate for a new aircraft anyway (plus the old Mx inspection required for the brake temps all going into the red!)

-Blucher

 

[Rook]

You might want to turn on the sarcasm detector.

ka

It was already deferred by MX control.

 

[Corona]

Same for cargo. Nothing like an APU inop DC-10 freighter full of fish baking in the hot African sun for a few hours!uke:

At least you've got a bulkhead and cockpit door between you and the fish.

Try a T207 loaded with antique, unwashed French persons on a two-hour scenic flight.

Over Arizona.

In July.

uke: , X10

C

 

[Corona]

The fish are already dead no?

No, they're swimming in tanks. That way, they weigh less.

You know, like having a cabin full of flying birds...

C

 

[AvroJockey]

I was on an Express flight long ago from MGM to MEM when it was 105. It was a Saab (when they only had Saabs), I was wearing a wool suit because I was just coming from my brothers AF commission ceremony, and it was midsouth humidity. I think it was the hottest I've ever been, including saunas. The flight attendant was puking, and I had to do the service. I think I lost 20# during that leg.

From that day on, I vowed when ever I was Captain, I would never put passengers in an environment remotely close to this! Passengers don't even step on the airplane until it is fixed...period! I skip all the middle men and tell the gate agent not to board until I say so. If they ignore me, I send the passengers back inside. Because as soon as the first person steps onboard with the intent to fly, they are the responsibility of the FO, the FA(s), and I!

In addition to safety, there is absolutely no reason to treat passengers like dogs! Wait a minute...you can't send dogs on an airplane when it's extreme hot or cold. Why the hell should you do anything different with your passengers?

 

[kingairpilot]

Actually your brake temps will get you well before you run out of gas if you do this, and you'll be returning to the gate for a new aircraft anyway (plus the old Mx inspection required for the brake temps all going into the red!)

-Blucher

No, the brakes stay quite cool if you do this while they are set..that is, unless the brakes are deferred also.

ka

 

[Stifler's Mom]

......

 

[ugasucks]

The problem with ASA is that you sit on the ramp forever and that is when the no APU thing becomes the issue even at night.