ASA: "Call sign only" in ATL?

[EMB170Pilot]

....don't get much practice when all your experience is in the pattern at DAB.....

Actually Joe, if goahead went to Riddle, Riddle pilots are NOTORIOUSLY known for very long patterns so goahead would have gotten plenty of radio experience.:laugh:

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Since we're on rant mode in this thread...

Seriously people, why is that, on the CRJ, every time we make any sort of heading change be it only 2 degrees, that one must center the heading bug EVERY TIME. Some people are addicted to that, I think there's nicotine hidden in that heading select knob somewhere...

If we're gonna start the "that's annoying" rant... what the hell is up with "the touchers"!? Stop touching the effing DUs you mouth breathing cretins!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually Joe, if goahead went to Riddle, Riddle pilots are NOTORIOUSLY known for very long patterns so goahead would have gotten plenty of radio experience.:laugh:

...yeah but you only have to know "report downwind" and "cleared to land".......:laugh:

 

[atl pilot]

As for the answer to the ATR question: Any final altitude at or below 11,000 will get you what we call a "satellite turn-out." If you want it, the best place to make arrangements for that is clearance delivery, and preferrably before we read you the clearance, so we can make the change. With some destinations (MGM comes to mind), if I amend your final altitude from above 110 to 110 or below, it will also change your vector gate (in MGMs case from a south PDR to a west PDR....which almost always also changes the side of the airport you use).

When we are doing triple departures, ATRs are always turned out and treated as satellite turn-outs regardless of final altitude requested.

We have been told the under non-trip departures, that unless you file 110 or below, that we are NOT supposed to coordinate and turn you out b/c it takes you out of the class B. So, asking you if you can accept 110 was a back door way of beating the system. I changed the altitude in the computer, and presto - no coordination was needed. Now you were a mandatory turn-out, and I didn't have to play the game with approach control.

When we have a departure line like we did, even one or two ATRs on the noise track (the normal heading used by everyone else) can really slow down progress as I cannot release the next jet behind you until you get a good 4 miles off the departure end of the runway. So, as you see the ATRs (as a group) really helped the flow by accepting the change. And my goal was to get as many folks airborne before the wx moved in as I could, so it really did help!

 

[WalterSobchak]

As for the answer to the ATR question: Any final altitude at or below 11,000 will get you what we call a "satellite turn-out." If you want it, the best place to make arrangements for that is clearance delivery, and preferrably before we read you the clearance, so we can make the change. With some destinations (MGM comes to mind), if I amend your final altitude from above 110 to 110 or below, it will also change your vector gate (in MGMs case from a south PDR to a west PDR....which almost always also changes the side of the airport you use).

When we are doing triple departures, ATRs are always turned out and treated as satellite turn-outs regardless of final altitude requested.

We have been told the under non-trip departures, that unless you file 110 or below, that we are NOT supposed to coordinate and turn you out b/c it takes you out of the class B. So, asking you if you can accept 110 was a back door way of beating the system. I changed the altitude in the computer, and presto - no coordination was needed. Now you were a mandatory turn-out, and I didn't have to play the game with approach control.

When we have a departure line like we did, even one or two ATRs on the noise track (the normal heading used by everyone else) can really slow down progress as I cannot release the next jet behind you until you get a good 4 miles off the departure end of the runway. So, as you see the ATRs (as a group) really helped the flow by accepting the change. And my goal was to get as many folks airborne before the wx moved in as I could, so it really did help!

That was, quite possibly, the most informative thing I've ever read on FlightInfo.

 

[ohplease!]

Heres one: move that freakin' microhpone out and away from your mouth so we can all uderstand what you are saying!

 

[CFI2766]

When we have a departure line like we did, even one or two ATRs on the noise track (the normal heading used by everyone else) can really slow down progress as I cannot release the next jet behind you until you get a good 4 miles off the departure end of the runway. So, as you see the ATRs (as a group) really helped the flow by accepting the change. And my goal was to get as many folks airborne before the wx moved in as I could, so it really did help!

[/QUOTE]


Whoa there...


From this paragraph, it really sounds like y'all need speed more than altitude. This is the opposite of what we are trained to do. Our standard profile is for 160 KIAS out of ATL to get us altitude quickly. We are preached to to do this from the training guys all the time. However, obviously, we can go much faster and still give at least 500 fpm in the climb. Would forward speed help ATC more?

 

[BIGGOAT]

I echo the comment about crossing the seat belts. To add one of my own, please do not leave the seat all the way forward when you leave the cockpit and take your water bottles with you if you open them! I cannot tell if you just poured the water in a cup or drank out of it. I ALWAYS throw the bottle away if its been opened. What else....that's good for now.

Goat

 

[atl pilot]

When talking about ATRs going out the noise track, I would have to say I personally would prefer the speed rather than the altitude. ATRs get an initial altitude of 4000, where all the jets get 10,000, so altitude isn't really as beneficial in that scenario.
Now having said that, your training department does a really good job forcing the speed issue, which is pinnacle in the jets departing to make the system work. When I depart a second jet, I am betting my seperation that the first one is accelerating as quickly as possible; otherwise I will not get the needed separation. When there's not 3 miles between the two departures, I can use visual separtion (you tell me that you can see the guy ahead and will maintain vis), or I use 1000 (hopefully since acft # 1 has not sped up, he will be higher than 1000 feet above your altituide), or as a very last resort I can turn you 15 degrees off his assigned heading. The training department is doing the right thing, as the SID states to accelerate as rapidly as possible. But this is a one size fits all document. There's only 12 ATRs operating out of ATL, we cannot write a book just for you guys.
The very best solution is that if you're able to accept 11,000 as a final altitude, that you request it with CD before you get your clearance. If you opted out of that at the time you picked up your clearance, and end up in a long line waiting for departure, tell the Tower controller you would like 11K as a final (do this when you're at least a few planes back from #1, so we have time to change your strip), and we can still shout over to CD to make the computer change, and by the time you're #1 to go, we can get you turned out into satellite radars airspace (rather than north departures - on the noise track) eliminating the wait for the remaining jets behind you. This ability to turn you out simply takes you out of the picture entirely.
Just remember that we only need this when we have a long line waiting to go and we are not in triple departures. When we are in trips, you're gonna get turned out regardless of your requested final altitude.

 

[BSkin]

Heres one: move that freakin' microhpone out and away from your mouth so we can all uderstand what you are saying!

You must have been the DOU(H that told ramp 4 controller to get the Popeyes out of his mouth last evening around 8:15. Very classy if it was, RJ Capt. He's one of the better ramp controllers, don't know his name.

Here's one for all RJers @ATL, get your (or Delta's) rampers there to park you! You burn fuel sitting there and we do the same wanting to run you over!

 

[CFI2766]

When talking about ATRs going out the noise track, I would have to say I personally would prefer the speed rather than the altitude. ATRs get an initial altitude of 4000, where all the jets get 10,000, so altitude isn't really as beneficial in that scenario.
Now having said that, your training department does a really good job forcing the speed issue, which is pinnacle in the jets departing to make the system work. When I depart a second jet, I am betting my seperation that the first one is accelerating as quickly as possible; otherwise I will not get the needed separation. When there's not 3 miles between the two departures, I can use visual separtion (you tell me that you can see the guy ahead and will maintain vis), or I use 1000 (hopefully since acft # 1 has not sped up, he will be higher than 1000 feet above your altituide), or as a very last resort I can turn you 15 degrees off his assigned heading. The training department is doing the right thing, as the SID states to accelerate as rapidly as possible. But this is a one size fits all document. There's only 12 ATRs operating out of ATL, we cannot write a book just for you guys.
The very best solution is that if you're able to accept 11,000 as a final altitude, that you request it with CD before you get your clearance. If you opted out of that at the time you picked up your clearance, and end up in a long line waiting for departure, tell the Tower controller you would like 11K as a final (do this when you're at least a few planes back from #1, so we have time to change your strip), and we can still shout over to CD to make the computer change, and by the time you're #1 to go, we can get you turned out into satellite radars airspace (rather than north departures - on the noise track) eliminating the wait for the remaining jets behind you. This ability to turn you out simply takes you out of the picture entirely.
Just remember that we only need this when we have a long line waiting to go and we are not in triple departures. When we are in trips, you're gonna get turned out regardless of your requested final altitude.

It would be cool if there were a regular way for this kind of info to be passed directly to the folks flying the line. It's not necessarily regulatory, but mighty helpful stuff to both pilots and controllers.

There will be captains that I fly with that will be aghast that we might possibly do something different than what was filed, regadless of the benefit to the controller or the flight. A little bit of direct communication between the ATC guys (not on the radio, but stuff like this) and the line-flying pilots would go a long way.

 

[say again]

What an amusing thread (except for a select few posts). You people need to relax, lighten up, and have a few beers. Why take work home with you??

 

[shamrock]

Here's one for all RJers @ATL, get your (or Delta's) rampers there to park you! You burn fuel sitting there and we do the same wanting to run you over!

So that's what's been missing from the equation, an effort from us to get the rampers to park us!

 

[Medeco]

HAHH!!!

If you only knew how bad it used to be!

How long have you worked in ATL?

Medeco

 

[BSkin]

HAHH!!!

If you only knew how bad it used to be!

How long have you worked in ATL?

Medeco

4+ years, and if you've worked here longer on the RJ, sorry!

 

[Caspian27]

Since we're on rant mode in this thread...

Seriously people, why is that, on the CRJ, every time we make any sort of heading change be it only 2 degrees, that one must center the heading bug EVERY TIME. Some people are addicted to that, I think there's nicotine hidden in that heading select knob somewhere...

I had a Captain a few months ago do this when we were flying in HDG mode...it was pretty funny.

 

[BSkin]

So that's what's been missing from the equation, an effort from us to get the rampers to park us!

Yeah, it is. Not too hard to get management to throw a bone up their collective arses and be there when you guys arrive. It was crappy at Citrus a few years back, now they're almost always waiting for us, even when we have to park on the E concourse.