Asa Alpa Proposal

[Medeco]

Did somebody say cowbell? http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/snl-more-cowbell.html

One the best ever.


Medeco

 

[Jmoney]

Hey John!!!!

So not only are you too big a pu$$ to insult me to my face, you're too big a pu$$ to admit who you are? Scared?

Wow-I thought you didn't care what anyone here thought. Looks like someone's little britches are just in a bit of a wad.

Retards like you are uncommon-but uncommonly fun to screw with!
-Rock-Rock!

P.S.-Your mommy wasn't too "scared" the other night!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Question 3:

If a tentative agreement was presented to me that contained the following:

1. All currently TA'd sections from completed negotiations.
2. Current ASA management payrate offer
3. Annual Cost of Living Adjustments for the life of the agreement.
4. Duty Rigs that adequately protected my time/productivity ratio.
5. An agreed to time frame for future Section 6 negotiations, afterwhich
both sides would support a Proffer Of Arbitration
6. Signing bonus of at least 5 million dollars.

I would likely vote:

A. to reject it in favor of a strike
B. to accept and ratify it as our new contract

It's gonna take about $20 Million in a signing bonus to come close to sign off on it. From what I understand SKW has it set aside already. With just a $3.00 pay raise up to current SKW rates and no COLA comes to $13,500 for the last 5 years!!!!!! That's just at guarantee and not what I actually flew.

You forgot Section 1.

Drop the PBS in 18 months or the pilots lose the Perf. Plus CRAP! I can already tell you that PBS that managment wants will suck for the pilots. Cause if it was benificial to both sides they wouldn't have to put a penalty on it if we don't take what they are wanting. If PBS is so good for the pilots like Scott Hall says then why the penalty attached to it? I asked him this in recurrent ground and he never gave me a straight answer. He kept dodging and saying there has to be an end game.

I could see the ASA pay rates proposal + 3% COLA each yr if everything else lined up. 1.5 pay for picking up open time like SKW gets. etc...

 

[GeekMaster]

It's gonna take about $20 Million in a signing bonus to come close to sign off on it. From what I understand SKW has it set aside already. With just a $3.00 pay raise up to current SKW rates and no COLA comes to $13,500 for the last 5 years!!!!!! That's just at guarantee and not what I actually flew.

You forgot Section 1.

Drop the PBS in 18 months or the pilots lose the Perf. Plus CRAP! I can already tell you that PBS that managment wants will suck for the pilots. Cause if it was benificial to both sides they wouldn't have to put a penalty on it if we don't take what they are wanting. If PBS is so good for the pilots like Scott Hall says then why the penalty attached to it? I asked him this in recurrent ground and he never gave me a straight answer. He kept dodging and saying there has to be an end game.

I could see the ASA pay rates proposal + 3% COLA each yr if everything else lined up. 1.5 pay for picking up open time like SKW gets. etc...

As far as "how much" signing bonus can be procured, I don't know. That $5mil was a guess based on several considerations. One thing's for sure, this would be the VERY LAST THING TO TALK ABOUT. The reason for that is simple. If we had every single issue in the contract settled except the signing bonus, a release becomes "realistic" for the first time. In a 30 day cool down window, the signing bonus is measured directly against the cost of a strike. That's not to say we could go after full retro or some astronomical amount because it would seem to be cheaper than a strike. Remember, self-help is a two way game. Yes we can strike, but SKW can do lots of nasty things too. There's plenty of case history out there with ALPA and other carriers. Don't expect SKW to play nicely. That said, 5mil seemed about the balance point to me....maybe more could be acheived, I don't know.

In calculating your 13,500 retro pay, don't forget to consider the 70 seat pilots and the training department guys. Using full retro formulas for them leaves the 70 guys out in the cold and the poor training department guys looking for a "bank note" to pay back the company. (if you were using full retro logic) So if you averaged out that pay difference over the entire pilot group, you're probably down a little closer to 8500. (I haven't done the math, just figuring the total number of 70+training dept. added to the total group) The 5mil figure spread out using previous W2's probably puts capt around 4500.

You are correct in that PBS is no better than the software and the rules that govern it. To get PBS accepted by the pilot group, we'd have to do a bit of research to find out who's happy with it and what are they doing. In addition, we'd have to determine the most important QOL issues and add them in there. Our biggest problem with it is our management has a HORRIBLE reputation nationwide as being the worst airline management in the industry. We simply couldn't trust them with ANYTHING having to do with "good faith". If we could protect ourselves and QOL issues, PBS could carry some good negotiating weight. But it's probably too late to work it into the current progress.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Drop the PBS in 18 months or the pilots lose the Perf. Plus CRAP! I can already tell you that PBS that managment wants will suck for the pilots. Cause if it was benificial to both sides they wouldn't have to put a penalty on it if we don't take what they are wanting. If PBS is so good for the pilots like Scott Hall says then why the penalty attached to it? I asked him this in recurrent ground and he never gave me a straight answer. He kept dodging and saying there has to be an end game.

No matter what the airline, be it a major or regional, PBS sucks but it saves the company money and alot of it. For the senior people PBS works out very well but the more junior you are the worse it will become. Much like it is now, senior people get the best lines and junior people are on reserve. IMHO we should use PBS, much like our brothers at the majors, to pay for the higher wages, retro and rigs.

Its all about give and take...

 

[Tomct]

It's gonna take about $20 Million in a signing bonus to come close to sign off on it. From what I understand SKW has it set aside already. With just a $3.00 pay raise up to current SKW rates and no COLA comes to $13,500 for the last 5 years!!!!!! That's just at guarantee and not what I actually flew.

You forgot Section 1.

Drop the PBS in 18 months or the pilots lose the Perf. Plus CRAP! I can already tell you that PBS that managment wants will suck for the pilots. Cause if it was benificial to both sides they wouldn't have to put a penalty on it if we don't take what they are wanting. If PBS is so good for the pilots like Scott Hall says then why the penalty attached to it? I asked him this in recurrent ground and he never gave me a straight answer. He kept dodging and saying there has to be an end game.

I could see the ASA pay rates proposal + 3% COLA each yr if everything else lined up. 1.5 pay for picking up open time like SKW gets. etc...

Go Around...you said it brother! Except I would say not a DOLLAR short of 15,000 cash...if not more! This company has made a KILLING over the last 7 years and it is time to PAY THE PIPER!!!:angryfire

 

[79%N1]

Not going to happen! Is that really your biggest want item, or are getting all the other gains included in this contract worth giving a little on that item? We lose every day we hold out to punish the company.

 

[flylowman]

Unfortunately, previous family commitments will make it impossible for me to attend this weeks' LEC meeting.

There are some out there that keep suggesting radical movements such as recall and decertification. Personally I believe such drastic measures are not currently necassary nor are they in the best interest of the pilot group. However, meaningful action is needed.

Perhaps one of you in attendance would consider introducing the following proposal to the floor. It is Non-radical and even Non-offensive to the current office holders. It will allow them to save face and work in the best interest of the majority of the pilot group.

I'll save the legaleze and use common language:

We, the ASA pilots, in the interest of continuing to pursue the wishes of the majority, propose the following in order to fully and accurately assess our current wishes in regards to continued Contract Negotiations. We do not object to Wilson Polling in principal, we simply believe a Pilot At Large survey is in order:

Using Ballotpointe, we propose the following survey be conducted among ALL active ASA Pilots:

Question 1:

If ASA management's current offer was presented to me for ratification, I would likely vote:

A. to reject it in favor of a strike
B. to accept and ratify it as our new contract

Question 2:

If ALPA's current offer was accepted by management and presented to me for ratification, I would likely vote:

A. to reject it in favor of a strike
B. to accept and ratify it as our new contract

Question 3:

If a tentative agreement was presented to me that contained the following:

1. All currently TA'd sections from completed negotiations.
2. Current ASA management payrate offer
3. Annual Cost of Living Adjustments for the life of the agreement.
4. Duty Rigs that adequately protected my time/productivity ratio.
5. An agreed to time frame for future Section 6 negotiations, afterwhich
both sides would support a Proffer Of Arbitration
6. Signing bonus of at least 5 million dollars.

I would likely vote:

A. to reject it in favor of a strike
B. to accept and ratify it as our new contract

I realize there are a few other open issues as well, but is my understanding that most of the terms of those has been agreed to in concept and simply needs a "legal washing" as to the language.

Everyone wants "solutions". This may not be the total solution but it's a start. It would give our current leaders the face saving opportunity to proclaim, "You spoke and we heard you" and then adjust our negotiations to the "true majority". Then, if the members at large show a majority wants to "stay the course", the so called silent majority will "silently" cease to exist AND everyone marches forward with a renewed unity. If, on the otherhand, the majority wants to work towards job security through "being competitve" (in lack of a single list), we might finally put this nasty affair behind us.

I'll be sending a proxy via a trusted member who will be in attendance to vote on my behalf should such a resolution make it to the floor. If you cannot be in attendance, I would suggest you do the same.

1 A
2 B
3 A

5 mil after tax would be about $3,500

 

[Tomct]

Not going to happen! Is that really your biggest want item, or are getting all the other gains included in this contract worth giving a little on that item? We lose every day we hold out to punish the company.

Okay, I will give a little......14,995! Man, that's a GREAT DEAL!

 

[wms]

Scope and job protection can be loop-holed or negotiated away later. Unfortunately JA has shown himself to be the type of person who will make agreements he knows he can break later. Money in your pocket can't be taken away. If ASA is going to disappear, it will be regardless of what we hold out for. If our company is dissolved, I want to have something in my pocket. With the exeption of a few people, I don't think scope is a big issue. Most just want to get the cash and leave anyway.