ASA 4 Days

[IFLYASA]

The ASA CRJ200 lines have very few 3 day trips anymore. 79 hours or less. I know SH says they are less efficient than 4 days but can someone prove to me how an 19 hour 3 day is less efficient than a 19 hour 4 day? Considering that's an extra 24 hours per diem that's paid out for all crew members on each trip.

I hear Southwest does alot of 3 days. Maybe they know something ASA doesn't.

I held 3 days about 3-4 years ago and can't even touch them unless I've been here like 18 years. What a joke.

I'm sure since the company is really pushing PBS, they would tend to make hard lines not so desirable to pursuade us to go to PBS. If this were the case, I would vote "NO" just because of what they are doing, regardless how good PBS is talked up.

 

[Data]

Not defending the practice but Southwest controls all of their flying, we're at the whim of Delta's schedule.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

This sounds like a great question for SH himself. Why not ask the Scheduling Committee to answer that too. They're the ones who should be enforcing a "mix of trips" per the contract, correct?

 

[LazyLightnin']

Someone explained it to me one time and said that it's due to the 3.75 min day and 75 min month guaruntees that 4 days over 3 days save the company money. Don't ask me to explain it because I can't. I'll say that when it was explained to me it made sense. Just another unintended consequence.

 

[Abernathy]

This sounds like a great question for SH himself. Why not ask the Scheduling Committee to answer that too. They're the ones who should be enforcing a "mix of trips" per the contract, correct?

I'm sure they'll just say "we've filed a grievance."

 

[Oakum_Boy]

don't buy that. next.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

The ASA CRJ200 lines have very few 3 day trips anymore. 79 hours or less. I know SH says they are less efficient than 4 days but can someone prove to me how an 19 hour 3 day is less efficient than a 19 hour 4 day? Considering that's an extra 24 hours per diem that's paid out for all crew members on each trip.

I hear Southwest does alot of 3 days. Maybe they know something ASA doesn't.

I held 3 days about 3-4 years ago and can't even touch them unless I've been here like 18 years. What a joke.

I'm sure since the company is really pushing PBS, they would tend to make hard lines not so desirable to pursuade us to go to PBS. If this were the case, I would vote "NO" just because of what they are doing, regardless how good PBS is talked up.

Well, your example is easy. A 19 hour 3 day is less efficient than a 19 hour 4 day because an extra overnight is covered with the 4 day trip, so it takes fewer pilots to fly a 19 hour 4 day, on average for the whole schedule. The more overnights there are per trip, the fewer distinct crews you need to cover them.

Remember, it all depends on what you mean by "efficient." Scott means, "Trips that require the fewest crews to operate the entire month's schedule." What you mean is, "Trips that utilize ME the most possible hours per day." Those are fundamentally two different points of view, and I think it is the main disconnect when crews hear that 4 days are more efficient than 3 days.

I agree that if they are making the lines bad for the purposes of "selling" PBS, it will backfire.

 

[79%N1]

To have more three days you need to have more naps. The company feels that nap lines are not cost effective and want to limit them. Hence, no 3 days.

Law of unintended consequences.

 

[samballs]

To have more three days you need to have more naps. The company feels that nap lines are not cost effective and want to limit them. Hence, no 3 days.

Law of unintended consequences.

I feel like everyone on this site learned this phrase last month. Now you all want yo use it like kids want the hot toy

 

[altimaklr]

ASA threads suck
Get your own message board

 

[ASApuppy]

I think the simple answer is we are running a little fat on pilot count. By having lines that are only 4 days and under guarantee it becomes difficult and non beneficial for a pilot to manipulate their schedule. The company does not want to pay over guarantee when they have too many reserves sitting around. Wait for PBS. There will be very few awards over 75 hours. Once attrition happens or growth occurs, then hours per month will rise until we reach our breaking point. FO's will wait longer to upgrade and our furloughee's will wait longer to be recalled. This is the cost advantage the company wants.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Company's push for PBS.Coincidently there's a vote coming up on this. Hmmmm. Come on guys, have you not figured it out yet!?

 

[crj567]

ASA threads suck
Get your own message board

If there were no ASA threads, this site would have 3 posts per day-2 by Gen damn Lee hisownfoolself.

 

[boknowsASA]

I think the simple answer is we are running a little fat on pilot count. By having lines that are only 4 days and under guarantee it becomes difficult and non beneficial for a pilot to manipulate their schedule. The company does not want to pay over guarantee when they have too many reserves sitting around. Wait for PBS. There will be very few awards over 75 hours. Once attrition happens or growth occurs, then hours per month will rise until we reach our breaking point. FO's will wait longer to upgrade and our furloughee's will wait longer to be recalled. This is the cost advantage the company wants.

I don't know what seat you're in but if you take a look at the 700 Capt RES list we have no one! We have zero Res coverage for today. We need an upgrade class!

 

[SSDD]

I know there are conspiracy theorists everywhere, but low paying 4 days have nothing to do with getting you to accept PBS. It is the brainchild of a couple of people in SGU. Skywest has PBS, AND low paying, crappy, 4 days.

 

[xjlifer]

At XJ we have 4 days that are low value AND get you back in base at 1 in the morning on the 5th day So there!

 

[IFLYASA]

At XJ we have 4 days that are low value AND get you back in base at 1 in the morning on the 5th day So there!

Hmm, after a scheduled 12am arrival that's 3.75 hours more credit at ASA. It's still sucks regardless. Once the FAA mandates the 1500 hour ATP rule, regionals will be struggling for pilots. They will be forced to pay respectable wages and give better quality.

 

[COOPERVANE]

we'll see

 

[Tarzan]

Hmm, after a scheduled 12am arrival that's 3.75 hours more credit at ASA. It's still sucks regardless. Once the FAA mandates the 1500 hour ATP rule, regionals will be struggling for pilots. They will be forced to pay respectable wages and give better quality.

I believe it will drive some regionals out of business as the rule stands now. As wages come up to attract pilots, the incentive for Legacy carriers to contract out out flying decreases. Give it ten years and I believe you'll see a great deal of this flying returning to mainline if the rule passes as is. There are multiple groups lobbying for caveats to this rule such as structured programs.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

There are multiple groups lobbying for caveats to this rule such as structured programs.

The data is pretty clear that quality outweighs quantity. Structured program people do better than those with a lot of hours who didn't attend some sort of structured program.

That doesn't mean that there are some who do well who didn't come from a structured environment, but on average, structured low-time pilots are better at getting through training and IOE than non-structured high-time pilots.

This makes sense, since the part 121 world is so structure-heavy.

Quality over quantity, every time.