AS starts Bellingham-Honolulu

[QCappy]

2) Wind at your back is not a good thing in an airplane

I think he meant enroute. :0

 

[Green Banana]

I think he meant enroute. :0

OK, I'll buy that one...

 

[gutshotdraw]

You are scaring me.

1) Winter is better than summer for takeoff performance.
2) Wind at your back is not a good thing in an airplane

He's referring to fuel burn en route (because winter headwinds tend to be stronger) meaning more fuel required at takeoff meaning more runway required. Departing the Islands back to the mainland is usually downwind meaning less fuel required meaning less runway required and Lihue is a tad short.

And you're scaring ME.

 

[Mr Wu]

BLI is adding 1000' when they resurface the runway next month.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

BLI is adding 1000' when they resurface the runway next month.

I had heard the same thing, but couldn't find the information anywhere. Do you have a link?

 

[CA1900]

I had heard the same thing, but couldn't find the information anywhere. Do you have a link?

http://tinyurl.com/243d34d

 

[CesnaCaptn]

http://tinyurl.com/243d34d

Thanks smarty pants. You don't think I did that? 6 of the 10 first page links are for Spokane Airport construction. Now post the link that mentions how much runway they are adding.

All the articles I have found are vague and just mention that 757s will be able to operate off the the new runway--well they can operate off the runway at its current length. I've scoured the Port of Bellingham site and still can't find how much runway they are adding.

 

[Dix-Bag]

AK will lose a lot of cash by doing battle on this one.. (at least after AAY starts the flights) This aint BLI-LAS..

A LEASED 737 that holds less than 150 Pax simply can not compete with a dirt cheap 6 million dollar OWNED 757 carrying 220. (not to mention one with RB211s and blended winglets)

What about 1st class?

If you're going to drive to BLI to avoid YVR Fares, I doubt you care about 1st class. Those canuks will just fly on an Air Canada widebody out of YVR.

 

[QCappy]

A LEASED 737 that holds less than 150 Pax simply can not compete with a dirt cheap 6 million dollar OWNED 757 carrying 220. (not to mention one with RB211s and blended winglets)

Actually, Alaska uses 737-800s that they have recently been paying for with CASH. They hold 16 in first class and 141 in coach, for a total of 157. They have cool blended winglets, too!:laugh:

 

[Dash8don]

AK will lose a lot of cash by doing battle on this one.. (at least after AAY starts the flights) This aint BLI-LAS..

A LEASED 737 that holds less than 150 Pax simply can not compete with a dirt cheap 6 million dollar OWNED 757 carrying 220. (not to mention one with RB211s and blended winglets)

What about 1st class?

If you're going to drive to BLI to avoid YVR Fares, I doubt you care about 1st class. Those canuks will just fly on an Air Canada widebody out of YVR.

I wouldn't be so quick to bet on that.
-If AS bleeds cash on the route, I'm betting AAY will be too, and in that department AS has a lot more staying power.
-While you may be able to carry more passengers, you will also need to be able to fill the seats. It's much easier to fill 160 seats than 220.
-The 757 has a higher fuel burn that the -800.
-AS has a loyal following in the PNW with their mileage plan and B of A Visa card.
-Our -800's are newer and therefore have better reliability.

Are these the RB211's you are bragging about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DfTX-IAkdg
Is the smoke part of your ETOPS flight following program? :laugh:

Good luck!

 

[Green Banana]

AK will lose a lot of cash by doing battle on this one.. (at least after AAY starts the flights) This aint BLI-LAS..

A LEASED 737 that holds less than 150 Pax simply can not compete with a dirt cheap 6 million dollar OWNED 757 carrying 220. (not to mention one with RB211s and blended winglets)

What about 1st class?

If you're going to drive to BLI to avoid YVR Fares, I doubt you care about 1st class. Those canucks will just fly on an Air Canada wide body out of YVR.

You are sooo right. Alaska's little experiment from SEA-HNL competing against Hawaiians 767 and Northwest's 757 has been a total flop. Good thing they never added 17 more routes to the islands.

 

[Dix-Bag]

I guess we'll see... I'm not routing against AS or anything.. I was just stating the economics of it seem illogical to me, but that's why I'm just driving the bus!

I have a few good friends at AS and have nothing against AS at all..

Not trying to start a pissing contest... Shoot, bring on the competition in my opinion. More competition = more money to be made.. YVR seems to be an endless pool...

Plus, this means more commuting options for all of us!

 

[Dix-Bag]

I wouldn't be so quick to bet on that.
-If AS bleeds cash on the route, I'm betting AAY will be too, and in that department AS has a lot more staying power.
-While you may be able to carry more passengers, you will also need to be able to fill the seats. It's much easier to fill 160 seats than 220.
-The 757 has a higher fuel burn that the -800.
-AS has a loyal following in the PNW with their mileage plan and B of A Visa card.
-Our -800's are newer and therefore have better reliability.

Are these the RB211's you are bragging about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DfTX-IAkdg
Is the smoke part of your ETOPS flight following program? :laugh:

Good luck!

LOL about the RB211s..

Burn and whatnot in itself is irrelevant as standalone data, so the real key
to comparing the AAY 757 and AS 737 would come down to RSMs and all those mystery numbers.. I don't have that data, so my opinion is based on assumption...

I doubt anyone will BLEED CASH because I bet the route itself will be highly successful. I think it's going to come down to who is willing to offer the cheapest seats, and under every scenario I can imagine, I just think AAY will be able to make more money off of a cheaper ticket.

The cheap aircraft acquisition cost is the key factor in most of the equations... I don't know what a new 737-800 sells or leases for, but I'd be willing to bet that it's 3-5 times more than AAY paid for these 757s. That alone is why AAY can make more money (I think) and attract more business with very very low fares.

AAY definitely pisses our customers off regularly with regard to lack of amenities and reliability delays.. No doubt, but AAY passengers don't have loyalty, they simply fly on whoever is cheapest. Hell, I'd be surprised if 50% of our customer base could qualify for the B of A credit card! Think of it like carpooling to work with a schmuck! It sucks but it beats a car payment!

My point with the RB211s and blended winglets was just a capability point. From what I've read about this, the 757-200 with this engine configuration and the blended winglets is a 3800-3900 NM airplane. In other words no worries about takeoff performance @ Max capacity. Plus a faster long range cruise speed and the added room for revenue, I would think makes this aircraft more of a moneymaker (even disregarding the ever important factor that a 757-200 now sells for 5-6 mil a piece)

Thats all

 

[gutshotdraw]

Interesting reading on this topic:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2010/08/alaska-airlines-allegiant-hawaii-bellingham/104076/1

 

[Green Banana]

I don't have that data, so my opinion is based on assumption...

The cheap aircraft acquisition cost is the key factor in most of the equations... I don't know what a new 737-800 sells or leases for, but I'd be willing to bet that it's 3-5 times more than AAY paid for these 757s. That alone is why AAY can make more money (I think) and attract more business with very very low fares.

The 757 is not all that it is cracked up to be. If it was so great, why did Boeing stop making it? O'ya the 737-800/900 replaced it! ALK is paying cash for a new, fuel efficient, Eco Van. Allegiant is buying someone's old 1975 yellow school bus. Yes you got it for cheaper but what about the operating costs over the next decade? Tt holds more seats, but if the market only supports 150 seats, not 250, that is 100 empty seats you are hauling for nothing. It is all about the right tool for the job.