Arrival Chart Question KBFI

AbOvo

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This might seem like an elementary question but it's in reference to the CHINS6 arrival into Boeing Field. I can't seem to find a reference to post the arrival image in this thread but those that are familiar will know what I'm talking about.

On the arrival there is a crossing restriction for turbojets to cross RADDY at 250kts & 12000 feet when landing north. If I remember correctly the Jepp chart says "RADDY at 250kts 12000feet". My interpretation of this statement is that you need to comply with the speed restriction and the controller will issue the altitude restriction.

Other arrivals say something like "EXPECT RADDY at 250kts and 12000 feet" or "CROSS RADDY at 250kts, EXPECT TO CROSS RADDY 12000 feet".

Basically the situation was that we were descending over a Dash 8 on the way in and the controller couldn't give us the altitude restriction. He did not issue a speed restriction at RADDY, I thought we should slow to 250 based on the chart saying "RADDY at 250kts" but the other pilot disagreed. We slowed anyway and the controller didn't say anything.

If I can find a Jepp I'll scan it and post it up.
 

ProFracPilot

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What type of aircraft were you flying? For turbojets, the restrictions at RADDY are:

TURBOJETS​

LANDING RWY 31: At 250KT Cross at and MAINTAIN 11000'.​
Were you cleared via the CHINS6 arrival? If so, were you given a "cleared to descend via the CHINS6 arrival" clearance? If you were on a CHINS6 clearance, the altitudes and speeds (for landing direction) are hard and not "EXPECT" limits. Unless specifically given other instructions, you are compelled to fly the STAR as published. If you weren't cleared via the arrival, then speeds / altitudes would be as assigned or at your discretion, consistent with FAR's.
 
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AbOvo

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We were not cleared to descend via the arrival due to the Dash I mentioned earlier. Obviously if this was a descend via then there would not be a question. The filed flight plan was PDT.CHINS6.

The altitude disparity is because I am doing this from memory and the only chart I could find online is a NOS that is probably out of date. I'll look to see if I have the Jepp. We fly a turbojet and the aircraft charts are on EFBs. We have paper backups.

My question will be more clear once I get a scan of the chart.
 

gulfstreameric

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dateless

CHINS6 is a CHINS6 regardless of date. New Charts will get new names. New date, hence CHINS7

? Right ?
 

Cobra17

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You must comply with all speed restrictions on the arrival, unless ATC assigns a different speed or specifically deletes the speed restriction (i.e. "normal speed").

Unless instructed to "descend via ....arrival, landing ...", you must maintain your last assigned altitude.

Never hurts to ask ATC if you are unsure.
 

NCherches

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CHINS6 is a CHINS6 regardless of date. New Charts will get new names. New date, hence CHINS7

? Right ?
I was told minor changes (frequencies, etc) will stay CHINS6 and Major change (transitions, altitudes, etc) will give it the name CHINS7.
 

NCherches

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The worst is Salt Lake City's "MAINTAIN 230 KTS" restriction given on EVERY departure clearance. I interpret that to be 230 kts exactly... I asked them 2 times and both controllers (different controllers) said it means 230 kts or less...

I said why don't you say "Maintain 230kts or less" and they said they don't know. In a pee-wee jet 230 kts only works until 10,000 feet or so :)
 

bailout

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You must comply with all speed restrictions on the arrival, unless ATC assigns a different speed or specifically deletes the speed restriction (i.e. "normal speed").

Unless instructed to "descend via ....arrival, landing ...", you must maintain your last assigned altitude.

Never hurts to ask ATC if you are unsure.

Uh, no.. if you were cleared as filed, in this case..PDT.CHINS6, then you are expected to comply with speed AND altitudes unless told otherwise.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0809/00582CHINS.PDF
 

Cobra17

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It depends on the verbiage the controller uses when clearing you for the arrival.



11.8.1.1.2. Altitude Clearance. Pilots shall maintain last assigned altitude until receiving authorizations/clearance to change altitude. At that time, pilots are expected to comply with all published/issued restrictions. The authorization may be via a normal descent clearance or the phraseology “DESCEND VIA.”

11.8.1.1.2.1. Example of Lateral Routing Clearance Only. “Track 32, cleared the EAU CLAIRE SIX ARRIVAL.” In this case, you are cleared the EAU CLAIRE SIX routing but are expected to maintain your present altitude awaiting further clearance.

11.8.1.1.2.2. Example of Routing with Assigned Altitude. “Fame 22, cleared EAU CLAIRE SIX arrival; descend and maintain flight level two four zero.” In this situation, you are cleared via the EAU CLAIRE SIX routing and cleared to descend to FL240.

11.8.1.1.2.3. “DESCEND VIA” Clearances. A “DESCEND VIA” clearance authorizes pilots to vertically and laterally navigate, in accordance with the depicted procedure, to meet published restrictions. Vertical navigation is at pilot’s discretion; however, adherence to published altitude crossing restrictions and speeds is mandatory unless otherwise cleared. MEAs are not considered restrictions; however, pilots are expected to remain above MEAs.

11.8.1.1.2.4. Example of “DESCEND VIA” Clearance. “Track 66, Descend Via the EAU CLAIRE SIX arrival.” If you receive this “DESCEND VIA” clearance, you are expected to vertically and laterally navigate in accordance with the EAU CLAIRE SIX arrival.

11.8.1.1.2.4.1. Notify ATC. Pilots cleared for vertical navigation using the phraseology “Descend Via” shall inform ATC upon initial contact with a new frequency. For example, “Track 32, descending via the EAU CLAIRE SIX ARRIVAL.”
 

BEfly

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Better get it figured out, I hear the FAA is really starting to crack down on this sh!t.

The above post explains well.
 
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